I did, mate. It is of sour grapes and mostly a crusade of an article that attacks the dictatorship and suppresses many of the realities of what was transpiring at the time. Many claimed for the arrival of the military to put order in a country that was being terrorized by thugs and bandits. However, like most history that is written nowadays, it is not politically correct to say this. All we hear is the ‘30 thousand disappeared’, a myth of propaganda and the notorious mother’s in the plaza de mayo is mostly a charade, women getting paid restitution for the disappearance of their children (many of which never died but left the country) that were vandalizing and placing bombs in cinemas, supermarkets and terrorizing the streets. Like I said, once the junta suppressed the dangers of the terrorists, Buenos Aires and Argentina was the safest I had ever witnessed it. By 1984 it no longer felt that way. By 1990 it was worse and for the first time I was robbed on the streets and one had to be cautious at night.
Interesting choice. Apparently (or allegedly) Lev Yashin considered him as one of the top keepers the world had ever seen.
Mate, you may have all the good intentions to discover and share information, but much of what you provided in links contradicts with what was being said at that timeframe during the Menotti era and the beginning of the Bilardo era. For example, Ricardo Bochini, in your link, dated in 2010, stated he was left off of the 1978 World Cup squad because of the pressure of the military. He stated in your article that the junta pressured Menotti to remove him from the final list and to put Alonso instead. But there is a problem: All of what he said was in complete contradiction to an article by El Gráfico that interviewed him in November of 1983, when the military had recently left and Alfonsin was about to be elected president of Argentina. This is what he said in 1983 in a summary: He thought he would be a part of the team but the people wanted Alonso more and that Menotti had questioned his football capacity, but he felt he lost his spot due to his own fault because he lacked continuity; and that he was going through some physical problems. At no point does he place blame on the military or government of that time. In addition, in 2010 he said he was doing well prior to the 1978 WC, but in 1983 he said he was struggling with physical issues and continuity leading up to the tournament. So Bochini changed his story over the years, rendering your article that you provided, in addition with the others, misleading and unreliable. This is why I always advise historians or students to investigate evidence from the era, and to be weary about retrospective versions that are printed many years after the facts. It is like a memoir, it holds less value than a diary or letter from a current time period. In addition, the article was initially about why Bilardo was overlooking him too. The truth is, like I’ve said, all of a sudden the military is the scapegoat for all of these individuals that were singing a whole different tune back then. Menotti was another guy, that over the years talked about how he’s a communist to heart and despised the military, but he was friends with Galtieri, the lieutenant of the army and brief president between 1981-82. Also, all these guys were in Argentina living well and no one was complaining. All of a sudden after the junta left people started to point the finger in order to conform and swim with the tide. It was not convenient for them to go against the new government and the military became the convenient scapegoats for all. Edit: Bochini wasn’t an absolute lock for Menotti at any stage; he was usually being subbed whenever he played for the NT and Menotti had his doubts about his abilities to compete against the European stoppers at the highest level.
I don't say that Bochini was a lock on the team but he has the right to talk years after and say that a player of River - who was not a lock or "hard-working player" himself, N. Alonso - was preferred over him for some reasons. It is not forbidden to speak differently years after in a different context. By saying this I don't pretend to say if what he says is right or if it's wrong btw but it's interesting to notice differences imo. People can read without having to receive advice of how reading articles or receive warnings. If ever I had to give some advice to a student, for my part I'd tell him "think by yourself" or just "think". "Don't use just one source" too. These articles exist so they can be read, period. They have their value as well. I hear the technical/physical/ consistency arguments but "People wanted Alonso more" doesn't contradict with what Bochini says. So did he had the intention to find an "excuse" in 2010? Did he had just the intention to add a tad more? Is the 1983 interview the complete ultimate truth about it? Dunno... Did he play the victim in 2010? I don't think so, in my opinion. I agree that the articles are perhaps not of the highest quality but they have their interest as well (it's no worse than El Grafico). "transpiring" is vague. Plus with so much insistence from you to enlight people about what the truth is, I can't help but wonder if it's not the underlined part of it - apart from "Bochini this", "Bianchi that", or Piazza or else - that would be the main problem... wich is disturbing. A last time, I receive the footballing arguments but for the rest I prefer to stop there. Was the situation complex? Certainly and it's nice from you to expose what was the situation before and thanks for sharing about what was "transpiring" but at one point it's "ok". I mean, no need to quote your whole post, you expressed your opinion, it can be viewed by everyone (with "the accounting paragraph") . The first part that I have quoted can be confusing enough so I had to react to it but after that first part, it is obvious enough. Thus, bye bye!
Mate, Bochini’s exclusion from the NT was based on football reasons, and his physical fitness issues, not political pressure from the junta, clearly addressed by Bochini himself in 1983. After the military was gone he was being overlooked again but this time by Bilardo, which is what prompted that interview in 1983. What he said in 2010 is bullocks. He clearly contradicts himself and comes across as a liar.
Yes there's a difference between what is written - and what is not - in 1983 and what he says more freely in 2010, everybody understood that. That doesn't make him a "liar" (how did we punish liars btw, in medieval times?). If you continue to repeat yourself and insist I will have to suspect you of supporting revisionism using sports discussions to dissiminate it ("the junta fought marxist terrorists" argument) or even negationism (the deny about "Desaparecidos" etc.) but I don't want to do that. I think we talked enough. Everybody has expressed themselves. No need to repeat the same things 3 times. It's curious this need to repeat/ hammering loudly.
You can do whatever you want, mate. But let me explain something to you: not one member of my family, nor I or friends were killed/tortured or disappeared in that era. You know why ? Because we weren’t part of the “montoneros” factions that were attempting to subvert the nation. The people that “disappeared” were part of a clan of terrorists that had to be suppressed. But many had left the country, mostly to go to Queens, NY and Spain, France, etc... and from then on spread negative propaganda against the regiment. After order was restored, Buenos Aires was a safe and jubilant city, once they left the country entered decadence. By you presenting left-wing propaganda links, with conformist views, simply shows what ideology you represent.
Over here, at least, it has nothing to do with any ideology. Everybody agree on this question. Apart from the ultra right wing.
Here is what Passarella said in an interview for France Football, a couple of months before the World Cup in France. Q : "What do You remember from the three World Cups in wich you particpated? A : In 1978, we won our first title, our strenght was the group. We were humble and we were hungry for glory. Q : How did you experience this World Cup, whilst your country was under the yoke of military junta? A : Still today, I repent. If I ever knew what was going on exactly and if I had had self-reliance as I have now at my age, I would have not contested this World Cup. We were young, we learned what has happened after. Some time ago, I had the misfortune to lost a 18 years old son. And today, I think that many fathers and mothers lost their child while we were playing the World Cup. What happened to me was an element of chance. What happened to the Argentine fathers during the World Cup was premeditated. Today, I would not participate in a World Cup in these conditions." FF n° 2710, 17 Mars 1998.
Another rather surprising case is that of Jimmy McGrory. Perhaps someone can comment on it more closely. Is it possible that his low presence in the national team is due to his competition with Hugh Gallagher?
The presence of Gallacher was one factor. They were of similar age. Celtic supporters have also pointed out that Scottish selectors have sometimes been reluctant to pick their players. McGrory was around at a time when a lot of goals were being scored, as a result of the new relaxed offside law. The more defensive WM system developed in response, but it took time and did not work for everyone. Specialist goalscorers were effectively devalued. Before the law change in the mid-1920s, the leading British goalscorer in league top divisions was Steve Bloomer with 317 at an average of 0.59 per game. Perhaps the most highly rated now is Jimmy Greaves with 366 at an average of 0.69 in the 1950s and 1960s. Of those who benefited significantly from the new law at the time, eight English and Scottish forwards scored 200 or more league goals in the top divisions at a superior goals per game ratio to Greaves. Goals in brackets. Jimmy McGrory 1.00 (410) Jimmy Smith 0.96 (225) Dixie Dean 0.87 (320) Hughie Ferguson 0.86 (361) Dave Halliday 0.77 (303) David Wilson 0.77 (254) Hughie Gallacher 0.72 (336) David McCrae 0.72 (245) Ferguson, Halliday and Wilson never played international football. Smith and McCrae had a couple of games each. McGrory made seven appearances, Dean sixteen and Gallacher twenty. Of Scots making their international debut in the 1920s, only Alan Morton (31) played more than Gallacher. Among Englishmen, Dean was well behind full-backs Blenkinsop (26) and Goodall (25), and had one cap less than Billy Walker. At this time goals in club football did not always impress the selectors. McGrory still scored more than anyone else, at a better ratio. Arsenal were prepared to pay handsomely for his services but he preferred to stay at Celtic, which might also have cost him a few caps. Unlike Gallacher he never proved himself in the English league.
hello my friends, cool puzzle here, making it an xi: 1 cudicini 2 Tony Book 3 Virgilio Maroso 4 piazza 5 Kevin Beattie 6 Ernesto Ledesma (Allan at 10 caps atm though) 7 Jair da Costa 8 Roberto Filippi 9 erico 10 Raffaele Sansone 11 nyers
Been on a real research bent on some lesser-known (for me, at least, being an Englishman) South American players over the past few months, so here's a few more names to throw into the mix: Adílio (BRA) (2) (am conscious that Brazilians almost deserve their own category though, just because there's so darn many of them that would've earned 50 caps if playing for most other countries!) Aguirre (ARG) (0) Aílton (BRA) (0) Anderson (BRA) (6) Bobô (BRA) (3) Borello (ARG) (7) Borghi (ARG) (9) Buttice (ARG) (4) (tricky with goalkeepers, of course, since it's not as if they can be accommodated in a NT in some other position. Only one at a time can play, and they're not often subbed on!) Coll (ARG) (0) Falcioni (ARG) (1) Galvalisi (URU) (5) Herbas (BOL) (5) La Fuente (PER) (5) Loayza (PER) (7) Miguel Angel Lopez (ARG) (0) Maneca (BRA) (6) Tata Martino (ARG) (1) Renganeschi (ARG) (0) Scotta (ARG) (6) Mário Sérgio (BRA) (8) Strembel (ARG) (5) Trasante (URU) (5) de Zorzi (ARG) (5) Zanabria (ARG) (4) I'm sure there's mitigating factors to quite a few of these (@Perú FC, @msioux75 - really wondering about your input, especially! ) but a few really stood out to me nonetheless!