Without a shadow of a doubt for me is Andrea Pirlo. The consistency for the last several years, and bringing it on in the biggest moments of World Cups and other competitions. I stopped after an hour of the Italy v/s Portugal match to make this thread. His intelligence... Stands out like a sore thumb, in a game riddled with players blind to passes and movements they can make to enhance the quality of the attacking/defensive prospects of the team. He doesn't dribble like C Ronaldo you say? Why dribble every time when you can see things ahead of everyone else and make moves and passes around teams. He is so comfortable (read : flexible) and effective in any area of the field. And when he reckons it's time to dribble, he sure can in a couple of elegant sweeping steps. If every team in the world emptied their squads and could draft a player american style, then every team in the world should draft this guy first.
I do agree. Having a friend who's for Milan, I use to see him through the years, and his consistency and football intelligence are something you can miss when you see him. He's the heart of a team, when he's out of shape the team is gonna definitely struggle.
So do Pirlo's and they're on a different level to C Ronaldo's altogether. To see this you have to look at football in an entirely holistic way. For me Pirlo is the closest thing to Franz Beckenbauer these days in intelligence as well as sheer elegance. Beckenbauer is a little ahead in both though.
I like Pirlo a lot. Not as much as jpick does but it is close. What mainly strikes me about Pirlo is that he is a maverick. We can discuss deep-lying playmakers in depth but you will not find a similar player in terms of approach to the game, overall skillset and importance to club and country (AC Milan and Italy respectively). I'm not going to debate his quality but I will discuss two of the major issues you have raised. (1) Is Pirlo the best player in the world? I do not believe that Pirlo is the best player in the world. He is up there but I would have several players ahead of him. My problem with Pirlo is two-fold and it centres around him being entirely dependent on two factors that are outside of his control. Firstly he needs a complementary player in order to perform to his best and without one his influence on a game can diminish. Secondly his game is dependent on the rest of his team making the correct attacking runs and actually doing something with his service. Granted he cannot be blamed for the second factor and it is one that applies to all deep-lying playmakers but it is still an issue. These factors mean that Pirlo's overall level of performance and influence can vary greatly and I simply cannot claim him to be best player in the world as a direct result. Now obviously others will feel differently and it depends on the criteria you use to judge players. If you take the last 18 months or so (which I do because I think form is very important when comparing players) then I would have Cristiano Ronaldo and Francesco Totti above him, perhaps a couple more as well. (2) Is he the #1 draft pick? This is dependent on how people like to construct their teams. As Pirlo is pretty unique as a player then I could understand someone wanting to take him first but I would not. Obviously it depends on the nature of the draft but I could not bring myself to pick a player that forces me in a certain direction from pick one, particularly when his impact is heavily dependent on the rest of his potential team.
Teso, you listed a couple of things which are minus points for Pirlo. But I reckon he can make things happen off the dribble too. But he doesn't need to as normally his teammates are pretty intelligent players. Teso, what do you use to judge the level of a player then?
Relax, weekends are always slow. My 2 cents would be that it is simply impossible to determine who the BEST player in the world is or was because the determination will invariably contain a dose of subjectivity whether as to the criteria selection, or the meaning of being the best. I think it would be a little easier if selection was done by the position played, which many polls and threads have done in the past here. I also think that there are several players who stand out from the rest and are in a league of their own, but different skills or talents got them there. Pirlo is one of them.
I beleive that if i had to make a team right now, with any player i wanted, Pirlo would be my second pick after Casillas.
Does this mean that if he was made to play defense he would still be "the best player in the world"? Or are you saying that defenders are simply worse players than midfielders and strikers per se and so did not deserve consideration? Different players play different positions are for a reason. Your blanket characterization of "the best" ignores it.
You don't get it. You're too stuck on formulas to define football. Let's just say that Pirlo is the closest player today to the level of Franz Beckenbauer. Beckenbauer played defence, midfield and attack all in the same way.
Usually their skillset (what can they do), influence (how important is what they do) and form (have they actually done it over a sustained period of time) in direct comparison to their peers. It's not an exact science. I would also avoid the Beckenbauer comments above because it does your cause no good. For starters because they are not even comparable in terms of position, style of play or overall standing.
Pirlo is probably the most intelligent person in the game, but choosing him as first pick means you would have to carefully pick his teammates to get the most out of his talent. I personally would take Messi first since he has shown he can adapt to many different playing styles and different roles for the team.
it is well-known that i am an admirer of pirlo's game (yes, that is an understatement). when on top form, he is about as good as anyone. he does occasionally have prolonged periods of time where he under performs, though. regardless, great player, i take ronaldo and messi ahead of him. i take kaka when healthy, and others like robinho, iniesta, totti and riquelme are up there as well for me with the usual "form and health" caveats (ronaldinho too, but he has been grossly out of form and not fit for quite a while now for club and country). as for draft picks, it is so hard to compare buffon and casillas versus alves and evra or cambiasso and essien versus ronaldo versus toni, ruud, klose, eto'o versus...you get the point. I would have to think long and hard about systems and personnel, i wouldn't even know a top 10. i think personally, though, i would pick kaka first, given his ability to fit in all systems and styles, then if you have to change systems, he still is great. granted, pirlo is a lot more versatile than people give him credit for. he needs certain players with him when he plays just in front of the defense, but he can slide out left or go forward if need be and do just as well. he can succeed in 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1 x-mas trees, 4-4-2 diamonds, etc., so he can't be pigeon-holed either, i still would go with kaka or messi first, and ronaldo given his form especially ahead of him. bottom line is he is a unique, intelligent, and versatile player, and given totti's health problems this year, right up there with buffon for best italian, but imho, not best in world. he is a joy to watch, though.
Pirlo is the most intelligent player out there right now, but players like him are very rarely THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD if they can't score goals and carry a team on their own. Riquelme is similar but a bit lazy where Pirlo is not. But I must say I favour the Pirlo type of player, he is probably my favourite player to watch right now, he makes every thing look easy he toyed with the us in that last friendly.
i meant to address this earlier, my bad, it is now too late to edit. be careful with this assertion, imho. he had "poor" (for him) form for club the last 3/4 months of 2005/2006 and then in the calciopoli aftermath the next season for about 3 months as well. the last 15 months i think he has been superb, and from 2002/2003-2004/2005 (and the first half of 2005/2006 somewhat) he was also very good, but he hasn't been the most consistent the last couple of years for club. he is pretty consistent (and quite brilliant at times), but not always. granted, some of that has had to do with being run into the ground playing so many minutes for club and country, but still, it should be noted. for italy, though, yes, he has been consistently very good for years now. granted, almost no player is truly consistent for years at a time that i can think of, so i don't know if that is really a big strike against him anyways. also, as far as him being a big-game player, it s true for the most part, the world cup, olympic quarters, the bayern ties last year, uefa super cup this year, u21 finals, etc., this is true in many instances, and others where he has played very well, but not always. the barcelona game and second leg of lyon in 2005/2006 he was quite poor. last year in the cl final he was kept under wraps, though he did have an assist, etc. so, for the most part it is true, he is a goo big-game player, but not perfect by any means.
I don't think Pirlo has that fear factor that can change games. When Messi, for example, picks up the ball the entire defence becomes worried, on edge. Sometimes he doesn't do anything special, but the possiblitity that he could makes the defense vulnerable. This gift is priceless and Pirlo doesn't have it. Teams that have an out and out defensive midfielder often stop his creativity because they block the path of his favourite pass. His set piece skills are vastly over-rated too. Otherwise he is almost perfect. He makes the game looks easy, always has time on the ball, passes well and controls the tempo of the game. I don't think you can call him the best player in the world, but he is easily top ten and miles better than other 'passers' such as Scholes and Guti. Anyone else think Carrick could become as good as Pirlo one day. I am impressed with him more and more every time I see him play.
how young is carrick??? isn't he in his prime as well? maybe i am mistaken, but i thought he was 26 or 27 by now. this year carrick has looked pretty poor at times, but last year he was a very nice player for sure and important to united's title run. I wouldn't put him at pirlo's level personally, but good player for sure.
Carrick's not fit to lace Pirlo's boots. Thats how much Pirlo is better, not how bad Carrick is, he's just not up to Pirlo's standards. Carrick does pass the ball well and pulls off some passes with his left foot that are impressive, but Pirlo is much smarter and much more skillfull.
Pirlo certainly does have it. Ask any defender how they feel when Pirlo is lining up a direct or indirect free kick anywhere near the area. He is a different type of player than Messi in many ways. But both are extremely dangerous in different ways.
Pirlo is arguably not even the best player on his team. Saying "best player in the world" is a bit much... In the following scenarios here are the players I would want: "On a Break" - Kaka "Surrounded by Defenders" - Messi "Free Kick" - C. Ronaldo or Riquelme "1 v 1" - C. Ronaldo
I would want pirlo in any of those situations because he is the most likely to bring the best result through a dribble or a pass.