The Arsenal vs. West Ham United, Premier League Matchday 24, 11 February 2024

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Tonerl, Feb 9, 2024.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yeah presumably because he realises someone has to occupy that zone to create the overload.

    This also illustrates why so much of the pundit class ranting about lack of effort/belief from the players is so out of date. It takes a lot more than running around to impact the game.

    Especially for the defensive side, if you haven't been given the structure to deal with this, just running around a lot could make things a lot worse
     
  2. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    I always got a laugh out of Ozil being called lazy, and I STILL laugh when I see people say it now about Kai who puts in massive shifts.
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Right?

    I've kind of been getting into some of the anorak rugby youtubes and the complexity of the defensive/offensive patterns are amazing.

    Especially it lead me to appreciate that players can't just adopt a 'must win mentality' and change the game. if your systems aren't working - it will look like a mess on the field
     
  4. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem with Kai is he’s not doing anything at the level of the other people being paid the most at the club

    I have warmed to him and understand what he brings to the team. I think it works without a 9 as he can swap with Jesus and trossard well and be a threat but I can’t see it working if we bring in a good forward in this way

    I kind of like him as an out and out 9. He was really effective vs Liverpool and his finishing needs work, but he’s quicker than u think and good technically and in the air
     
  5. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Also, Ben white inverted because kiwiour can’t and their left side was shambolic. Bowen is not a 9 either
     
  6. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Kiwior has been played so sparingly that I don’t think we really know whether he can invert or not. In his first season at Spezia Kiwior played as a DM. At Leeds and Brighton White played a handful of games as a DM. The choice to have White invert in this game and Kiwior play as a traditional left back may have been entirely tactical, given that Kudus was a much bigger threat on the left wing than the seldom played defender Moyes used on the right wing.
     
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  7. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We’re better off with Kai, an off ball dueling monster who wins headers and possession higher up the field for us

    IMG_1399.png
     
  8. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Weird one but what about Kai as an inverted lwb?
    He is really good defensively, not slow and good technically
     
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  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    With Vieira and Partey being out, we're a little thin in midfield: it's Havertz, Odegaard, and Rice, and then ESR/Jorginho/Trossard.

    Not sure Havertz can actually be a 1v1 defender.
     
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  10. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for sharing the comparison. If you had told me Kai would be substantially better defensively than peak Granit, I wouldn’t have believed it. I’d have also expected Kai to be better than Granit offensively, too.

    Clearly, Havertz is a player that still defies our expectations. It will be interesting if/when we figure out what his baseline and ceiling really are.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    he played at fullback once for germany under nagelsmann and it was dumb and bad
     
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  12. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He’s not a progressive passer, either, which is the thing that Zinchenko does that gives us the ability to essentially play a double pivot and two high attacking mids. It’s not enough just to stick another body in there.
     
  13. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Havertz does well in tight spaces

    I just don’t think he’s the answer as an 8 and is better for me, as a forward
     
  14. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I prefer him in rotation with MO or as a false 9.
     
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  15. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    He wasn’t supposed to be an 8, but Partey and Timber injuries.
     
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  16. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Less than 48 hours to kickoff, @Tonerl
     
  17. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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