The Arsenal v. West Ham, Wednesday December 15, 2021, 2000 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Xhaka seemed better than Partey in the game, even though he played some poor passes

    I thought Saka and laca were immense and the defence was extremely tight

    I wish we could
    Press like this away from home too, it would’ve stopped Everton instead of bunkering from 46 minutes

    Saka was unplayable, their lb was on toast all game and Saka was toying with him

    if he develops an eye for goal, he’s gonna be a joke
     
  2. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK. Objection sustained. ;)

    I've been conflating the 2 tackles in my mind, but you're right the one I first commented on was the Dawson tackle. And at the time I saw it in real time and then 1 replay at most. To me it looked like Laca kicked Dawson's leg rather than visa versa. I wasn't focused on how Dawson almost scizzored Laca's trailing leg as his momentum took him through the man.

    Now having watched it a few more times from different angles, I can see that there's a much better argument for it to be a pen. Still debatable IMO, but I'll agree with whoever said that it's a more likely pen than the Coufal contact.

    So, we may have lost this marginal call, but not all of them, as was discussed above in real time. AND luckily it didn't really matter in the end, as we sealed the result with some real command.
     
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  3. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    always cup your balls.
     
  4. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    that's where you're wrong, sir! you cannot slow down if you already have no speed! he was playing 4D chess all along!
     
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  5. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #105 Tonerl, Dec 16, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
    Thank you for replying to that. I didn’t have the energy.

    Also, I find it weird, except that I don’t at all, that nobody is talking about this Dawson incident. He goes miles over the ball and straight through Lacazette. It must be because Laca nominally gets his shot off, which while it shouldn’t matter apparently does in these circumstances.
     
  6. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    i was going to bitch about this. the NBCsports highlights did not show any replay of this. at all.
     
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  7. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #107 NorthBank, Dec 17, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
    Yeah I couldn’t find it on YouTube. I had to undelete it from my DVR and fast forward to the Dawson tackle. Seems like a pretty significant talking point which oddly has been glossed over
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yet VAR is supposedly on top of all this stuff
     
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  9. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, interestingly none of the highlight packages online spend any time on it at all, when IMO it was the most clear-cut penalty of the three chances
     
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  10. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    There are so many times he gets the ball and he sees someone run into space and releases way after time. He had a go at Tierney during the match he expected him to make a run down the wing but by the time he was ready his running lane was cut off, Xhaka waved his arms then passed sideways.

    If he plays the ball within 3 seconds of getting it, Tierney is off down the wing.

    And this isn't an Arteta thing, he has been slow on the ball since we signed him.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is the kind of theory Maric used to write about 5 years ago which RBL was big on. The combination of scanning, body positioning, and one/two touch under huge pressure. Xhaka is too slow, too one footed etc

    At some level it's drilled but it also goes to another level where the likes of KDB play insane instant balls because they know a team mate will likely make the run
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I mean this seriously, the editing and punditry is one way these games are tilted.

    It was exposed in the Italian scandals
     
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  13. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    and yet they ran multiple replays on saka which i thought was a fairly clear non-penalty from the first 1-2 replay(s).
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Something that was discussed weeks back is that the players outside of Auba/Laca really need to score goals - especially given the crummy output of those guys

    i.e. the wingers and the midfielders have to chip in heavily

    ESR seems to be doing it with 6 league goals already
    Ødegaard has 4 goals
    Saka has 2 which is not enough
    Pepe has zero
     
  15. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, instead Howard and Higginbotham spent all their energy talking about Coufal's tackle not being worth a PK and his reach across Tierney's face not being worth a first card. Under normal circumstances, I'd have some sympathy for incident with Tierney, but as many times as we've had players' faces stomped, outright kicked through the back of the leg when the ball is nowhere near, studs up tackles into ankles that only result in fouls---maybe a yellow, I've run out of ********s to give.

    And don't get me started on "well, Masuaku had a right to put his leg there, it's just Saka's attempt to shoot that causes the contact." Ok, fine. But by that standard why didn't Luiz have a right to run behind the Wolves attacker to try to catch him, and it was only the Wolves attacker's running stride that caused the contact with Luiz's knee? Someone explain the difference, please.
     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #116 The Jitty Slitter, Dec 17, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
    Exactly.

    Like so many times in that scenario there is gamesmanship that the attacking player will cut off the defending player and cause the contact - yet it's a foul.

    Fine - but then it needs to be consistent?
     
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  17. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    Its so frustrating to watch both Pepe and Xhaka because they are so one sided, and just not good enough to compensate.

    Saka has got some assists from runs into the box and crosses on his right foot. He has had shots at goal with his right foot that he has been unlucky to have saved.
    If Pepe doesn't have a clear left foot option, he stops, turns on the ball and goes back to the RB typically.

    Xhaka, for his pace, would need to be ELITE on his left foot to be worth while. And he absolutely is not. A lot of his long range passing just doesn't come off, which honestly should be his main attribute, and he is slow to make super obvious attacking passes. Its frustrating because you SEE he SEES the pass, and still delays.
     
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  18. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a first-rate rant, Yoss. Well done.
     
  19. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Saka gets a lot of acclaim, rightfully so but the goals are what separate the elite players in his position from the good. Pepe being a net negative is not good. Martinelli, Nkethia, both need to step up. The chance creation is another issue of course.
     
  20. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watched this again last night, and here are a couple other random observations.
    • Martinelli's growing confidence really stood out to me, but particularly after his goal. As long as he can stay healthy, this is a really important development.
    • I was intrigued when both KT3 and NunoT were on the pitch on the left at the same time. It made me wonder if Arteta might try playing Nuno further up the pitch. He seems to have the engine to do so, but would probably need to improve his touch and distribution.
    • I'm really impressed and thankful our defense has been solidified. Strong, fast attackers like Antonio (Drogba, Lukaku, etc.) have been a perpetual thorn in our side for well over a decade. Yet, Antonio was practically a non-factor.
    • It was also great to see Gabriel get a partial assist on Martinelli's goal. Seeing our young center backs directly involved in the attack is a huge development. When was the last time anyone mentioned that we lost this key contribution when Luiz left?
    • On the whole, WHU were given far more impunity to foul. We played through that, and also gave them some of it back - but importantly, without taking it too far and our detriment.
    Lots of positives to take from this.
     
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  21. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    This may be hyperbole, but I think I’ve coached kids that scanned at least as well as Xhaka.
     
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  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You just gotta let it go and embrace refereeing inconsistency. :p
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I'm kind of amazed how many players reach elite levels of football with such basic deficiencies?

    e.g. one footedness? Haven't really seen that in rugby since the 80s yet look at Sane who has to receive the ball closed off if he plays on the right because he is so one sided.

    Scanning. Body position to receive the ball etc

    Lack of knowledge of basic aspects of zonal marking, half spaces, pressing structures - although maybe this is not surprising given supposedly elite managers like Ole also don't know this stuff :ROFLMAO:

    The book about Pep's time at Bayern marvelled at how Boateng didn't know how to play zonal systems - he'd just been playing instinctively the whole time.
     
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  24. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can explain the difference quite easily: the one incident involved David Luiz, and the other involved not David Luiz. :ROFLMAO:
     
  25. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Had the two-shot Americano instead of my normal one shot.
    :p
     
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