The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Yeah you’re getting it now. It’s like reserve teams used to be…a schedule of all friendlies.

The saga of how Major League Baseball continually has diminished the minors over the last 100+ years is pretty interesting, and also very helpful for the purposes of this thread.

If anyone really cares, find a copy of Bill James’ Historical Abstract at a library and skim through the parts about the minors.

 

Which is, of course, not the question I asked. But again that’s your MO. Claim somebody said something so you can refute an argument that has never been made.

To remind you, my original post was questioning the timing of why some teams are penalized while other teams who have been accused longer and of allegations going back further, haven’t been dealt with.

 

Well if you like romance, and you follow the Open Cup, El Farolito, who play out of a Bay Area tacqueria, have already taken out an MLS reserve team and are in extra time against Oakland Roots, despite playing most of the second half with ten men.

Their goalkeeper's number just fell off.

 

It IS the question you asked, in fact you've just asked it again AND THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS - that City are being investigated over 115 ALLEGED misdemeanours and have not been penalised because they haven't (yet) been found guilty of anything!! YOU CANNOT PENALISE A CLUB OVER ALLEGATIONS. Which is exactly what I have said.

 

Clearly you can't comprehend what you read. Because that is not at all what I said. Which actually explains a lot of your posts in this thread.

 

They have been charged, and it was confirmed that there is a hearing scheduled but neither side will reveal when the hearing is.

 

They were charged in February 2023. The EPL CEO said

"There is a date set for that proceeding. Unfortunately, I can't tell you when that is but that is progressing. I can't give any details on Man City beyond saying a date has been set, I can't tell you when that date is."

He also said if they'd done what Everton and Nottingham Forest had done in 2023 they'd have had a point deduction by now but it's way more complicated.

 

When we get pro/rel and take off the training wheels, does anyone think that Manchester City would now make NYCFC a powerhouse? Now they could really use them as a minor league team much like in baseball. How many big teams might decide to come take advantage of the American market?
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Would cities like Boston even have a team? Maybe the Kraft's take a pass on a league and could anyone build a stadium in Boston that could be in the lower tiers of soccer yet big enough to play D1? Makes me wonder all the new problems that could happen and more that could be exploited.
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Who's really investing in American youth then?

 

It IS what you said - end of.

 

They seem more interested in Girona and Lommel SK. Belgium has produced a lot more talent than the US over the years.

 

I'm not saying they would open an academy here but those players you've mentioned just getting minutes here. Those teams are closer to Europe. Without any restrictions in the new P/R league....

 

CFG may not even exist by the time we get P/R. Most of us will be living on Elon City, Mars.

 

Please stop teasing the kid who takes the short bus to school

 

Lawyers and the complexity of the case are the main reasons. Spending more money than you were supposed to is a pretty simple thing to prove especially when both clubs admitted to it,

Another factor is City's willingness to blow things up if required. Forest, Everton, Leicester and everyone else need English football more than English football needs them. That's not the case for City's owners. While I'm as frustrated as everyone that the small fish are being punished while the big one is seemingly getting away, the primary blame needs to be with City not the prem.

There is a responsibility on the clubs to try and follow the rules. Everyone understands pushing the envelope, and of course if you have rules there have to be consequences for breaking them, but the prem, or any other sports league, can't function if their members are actively trying to break the rules.

The main story around this whole thing needs to be that the most dominant club of the last 10 years broke the rules, got caught, and then lawyered up and threatened everyone who says anything. That's the story, not that the prem are attempting to enforce rules that everyone agreed to.

 

Everton is the 25th most valuable club in the world. They're not small fry.

They are worth less than LAFC, Atlanta United and New York City FC though, according to Forbes.

 

Fine, you know the mods rules for this thread. If I said it, quote my post (and not an out of context post where its obvious I'm discussing the scenario of what happens IF they're found guilty). If you find that quote I will willingly admit that I considered them guilty without the investigation.

Otherwise, STFU.

 

Which is why I said the EPL was a joke. They've lost control of the clubs and are now in a place where there are a handful of clubs that are more important than the competition. Yes, the blame for that falls on those clubs, but it also falls on the league for not seeing it coming despite the fans hopping up and down pointing at it for years at this point. Too concerned about the short-term profit over the long-term safety of the game.

 

Why can't people understand that what City did was different to what Everton and Forest did? Allegedly.

 

And to bring it back to the thread topic, I wonder if the fact the 3 of the non-big clubs change every year weakens that group relative to those big clubs. Clubs like Norwich have a different agenda from your Evertons.

 

Fine, if its different, handle it. My frustration isn't over what they did, its that the specter of them being investigated is still hanging over the league for more than a year while other teams are being dealt with. That's not a level playing field.

(Second to that is the rumor that the EPL is talking about changing point penalties to fines, which sounds like them being unwilling to stand up to Man City if they're found guilty.)

 

It would be a level playing field if City had done the same thing as Forest and Everton and not been punished.

But they didn't. They're charged with 115 breaches over 10 years.

You can't deduct points before you find them guilty.

 

What, now you're doing it? I'm not saying they're guilty. I'm saying that the EPL has had plenty of time, and has plenty of money, to have dealt with this. The fact that they haven't, either because its "too complex" or they're afraid City will go nuclear, is a black mark on them and the competition.

Lets say (again IF, not claiming it as a fact) they're guilty. That's gotta mean a point deduction large enough to have them relegated. Why should Luton/Forest/Everton get relegated this season while Man City skate by for another year in the EPL when they (again, in this scenario I'm suggesting) cheated? Because the EPL can't get their act together to figure this out in over a year? That's a joke.

Hell, I'd even say you could make a case that no teams facing a point deduction should have to take that deduction until all teams under investigation are dealt with. Its only fair to have everyone on the equal footing based on their penalties competing against each other, not some teams having to fight against relegation this year while other teams know they can wait and save their resources for another year. I understand that it may not be feasible to pull that off, but it doesn't appear the EPL is even trying.

 

Back more directly on the P/R topic, listening to PTI today Mike and Tony were talking about how dynasties (specifically in the NBA in this case) come to an end. One thing I have to give credit to P/R for is that because of the promotion aspect, you don't get dynasties where the same team or two is winning year after year in the lower leagues, which makes those leagues more interesting.

You do still have that problem in the top divisions of course, which is a major drawback of the 'big 5' leagues (and others of course, but the big 5 get the majority of the coverage).

 

No. CFG doesn't care about anyone other than Manchester City. That's their main priority. Same goes for Red Bull. Salary cap or no salary cap, ProRel or no ProRel, those ownership groups don't care much about their other properties. There is no salary cap restrictions in Brazil yet RB Bragantino and Bahia (CFG) don't spend or try to outspend Flamengo or Palmeiras. No reason do so here in the US either.

 

NYCFC ranked 14th of 29 teams in payroll last season as per the MLSPA numbers. Official 2024 numbers aren't out yet, but Capology has them at 16th this season. Right now they're basically hovering around the MLS median when it comes to spending. They could easily spend more now, and they're not doing it.