The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

I don't think ProRel, at least here, has nothing to do with competition. It has to do with money. When we get enough people supporting lower leagues and more people supporting our top league which in turn will bring in better TV deals and sponsorships in all the divisions then ProRel could really be a possibility.

Right now people would rather follow and support foreign leagues than our own domestic leagues. And I'm not referring just to attendance. Viewership (which is where the best TV deals will come from) is what domestic leagues need support the most. They all want ProRel but they aren't willing to watch our domestic leagues.

 

I don't care.

 

You realize Manchester cops are employees of Soccer United Marketing.

 

I guess you cared enough to tell us you don’t.

 

The ratings for the various clubs from overseas proves viewers are drawn by the quality of the play, not the drama of avoiding relegation.

If the latter mattered, then ratings would be highest for teams threatened with relegation. But they aren’t.

 

Any thoughts?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/college-football-super-league-proposed-per-report/ar-BB1l2pCi

 

Agree! I've said this same thing several times. Ratings for Manchester City vs Arsenal just recently played proves this fact. No one in the US cares about bottom feeders "fighting for their lifes" to not get relegated.

Also another fact you mentioned, people are drawn by the quality of play which is a reason I always hear as to why they prefer Euro leagues over MLS. ProRel won't fix that either. Meaning all those that watch cause of better quality won't all of a sudden start watching domestic leagues cause of ProRel.

 

It's inevitable.

IMO, the bog American Football schools SHOULD do this, but only for American Football. The rest of the sports should stick to more traditional conferences organized by geographic location as much as possible.

The NCAA as a governing body also needs to be rethought. IMO, it should oversee all divisions BELOW division 1. There needs to be a separate governing/regulating body for the Division 1 sports. The complete mishandling of the transfer portal rollout and the ongoing debacle that NIL is.... proves that the NCAA has no idea how to govern itself.

 

Which makes sense. Being relegated from the Premier League means way less access to US-based fans to your team on television. It’s not as though you’re going to watch many of your team’s games in person. The parameters are different if you live in England as evidenced by the crowds of many teams outside the Premier League.

 

In the context of a thread that's supposed to be about pro/rel in the USA, why should we care about an endless argument about no-shows at Manchester United?

 

We shouldn't. But given this nonsense started with some strange claims about Sheffield United attendances when they are sitting at the bottom of the Premier League, perhaps your ire should be directed in that direction?

 

If somebody said something daft about Sheffield United, the number of empty seats at Old Trafford provides no useful information about that issue.

 

Indeed. But when one particular poster continued with their strange claims about Sheffield United crowds - despite being corrected by at least two posters - it was kind of inevitable that things went the way they did. That's not to excuse the continued irrelevant discussion of Man Utd attendances, btw.

 

Meanwhile, back on pro/rel, the battle to avoid relegation from the National League is still pretty tight. Boreham Wood - in mid table just a few weeks ago - have slid into a relegation place thanks to six defeats on the trot. Not good. Kidderminster Harriers beat already promoted Chesterfield to keep their hopes of avoiding the drop alive. But there are still five or six teams that are trying to avoid the last three relegation spots.

Meanwhile, in the National League North Bishops Stortford, after losing 18 (!) consecutive games to be mathematically relegated, won their first game subsequent to that. An indication that playing when something is on the line can be a lot tougher.

 

Yup, there's a difference between foreign tube fans and domestic ones. The latter have more invested in a club supported than just the quality of play.

 

Can we can this troll? Nobody gives a crap about Boreham whatever.

 

One question.
Let's assume MLS and USL add Pro/Rel. Do you think that there are enough fans to support Divisions 2,3 and 4 teams?

 

Of course. If you introduced pro-rel NFL, MLB, NBA and NCAA football fans would see the error of their ways, abandon century old family traditions, and head out to watch Scranton Snapping Turtles take on Chesapake Bottle Openers.

 

The problem in the US isn’t strictly the number of fans. It’s also about how close those pockets of fans are to each other.

Here’s my point. The US could probably support that if travel costs were like they are in Holland. But they aren’t, so clubs below the 2nd tier wouldn’t be viable in a pro/rel environment.

 

Ask Blackburn about that ...

What if I told you I'm in the Dog Food industry ...

Learn the difference between "sell out" and "empty seats" OR just shut up.

Which has nothing to do with the fans in the US, which this thread is about .... the US.

That you've championed, AND have posted agreement with the quite obviously incorrect side of, btw.

2 certainly ... and there's hotspots at 3.

Overall I don't see a groundswell that folks want to claim would happen overnight. If Seacoast United or Vermont Green or Brilla (I've been to Clinton MS more than once btw) got hot and promoted to USLC over a short period (few years) that'd be a death knell for those clubs. The support simply isn't there to infuse the needed capital for players AND infrastructure they'd need.

 

Pro/Rel will work on sports that already have a fan base here. Like American Football and BasketBall. Ice Hockey is not as popular in the warm states so Pro/Rel could happen in the states that do watch Ice Hockey. I have a lot of questions on how the viewership will affect MLB. I do think that soccer has passed baseball in views but MLS has not passed MLB in views.

Pro/Rel will work on states that have big cities like California with LA, Texas with Austin, NY with NY. In my mind, I could only think about 10-12 states that could have the resources and the infrastructure to build a soccer culture. What about the other states, are you going to let them die?

I don't understand why people patent like a normal person working a 9-5 job would have enough money to build a new team and make a living off of it. You have to be a billionaire or a multimillionaire to even have a chance in the first place.
One of the best UCL teams phoenix had a couple of thousand fans. How is that Enough people to support teams? Clubs will go bankrupt fast.

 

I know the difference and like I said, 1. Manchester United sell out every home league game 2. no way 1/5th of the people that spent 60 quid or so for a ticket don't bother turning up and I simply don't believe that 1/5th of people with tickets are unable to attend for various 'personal' reasons.

I watch a LOT of English football, I see at least the highlights of EVERY Premier League game and I have not seen 20% of any stadium empty for many years now.

HOWEVER the original point being made is that even though attendances throughout the years have risen and fallen across all divisions and for different reasons ie hooliganism (which nearly killed the English game in the 80's) or Covid for another example clubs will almost always get 'higher' attendances as they rise through the tiers, supporters DO NOT 'prefer' life in lower divisions.

Perhaps its the concept that the different tiers here are at different levels that (some) in the US find hard to grasp? I can see why (over there) there are different leagues, based on geography, and that they are all on the same 'level', but that is simply NOT the case here - here the pro league is split into 4 divisions that are (as we can see from the words promoted and relegated) clearly at 4 different levels.

 

You probably have to be a billionaire to own a team in the Premier League these days. Notts County's last two owners, both who pumped more than $10 million of their personal wealth into the club, said they could not afford to operate a competitive club in the Championship.

If you mean USL, Phoenix has very wealthy owners, including Alex Zheng and average attendances of 8,000+ in the searing heat of an open stadium (evening kickoffs help). They had the financial backing to bid for MLS expansion.

They're one of the few USLC teams that probably could flourish in MLS.

 

I don't think many would show up to Citi Field or Angel Stadium to watch minor league baseball, though you never know.

I don't know why you would think that. Sports already struggle to get attention in an overcrowded sports market.

New York probably has two metros that could support top-flight teams, New York City and Buffalo/Rochester. There's really not much else.

New York City has had a soccer league with promotion and relegation for decades.

 

Last ten years of the USL Championship, the following teams have folded:

Antigua Barracuda FC
Austin Bold FC
Ottawa Fury FC
Penn FC
Phoenix FC
Reno 1868 FC
Rio Grande Valley FC
Saint Louis FC
San Diego Loyal SC
VSI Tampa Bay FC

Additionally, OKC aren't playing at the moment and Fresno relocated to Monterey.

"But Bury and Macclesfield Town".