The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Probably would be very similar, fans would be still be coming for the soccer and/or the minor league night out experience and pro/rel likely wouldn’t drastically alter either.
     
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  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought they were discussing it.
     
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  5. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    they always act like they got you with these types of coments. while in their sports is all peds cheating and fake fighting
     
  6. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2017 4,302
    2018 4,923
    2019 4,478
    2021 4,138
    2022 5,061
    2023 5,700

    For some reason LV Lights aren't reporting.

    The reserve teams leaving will have made a difference.
     
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  8. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL, no ... it isn't irrelevant that something a certain poster claimed, and another certain poster tried to pass off as true .... is 100% false.

    No, they celebrate being the least shit of the shit clubs. And treat literally absolutely nothing, as a great finish and something to celebrate.

    And yeah, clubs celebrate being able to build ... and player equity among clubs IS something to celebrate

    Fans/Team with historic inability to have a good quarterback upset over missing chance at potential franchise quarterback ... [nick cage voice] "you don't say"

    Yes you have the Spurs ownership in USLC (and a good handful of others that COULD be "mls ready" on that front) ... but you've also got folks operating on the 5-10M$ level that are some of the better teams in the league (and potentially promoted under a p/r scenario) that literally don't have the capacity to compete on a scale 5-20x higher than that. Payroll (staffing, coaches, players) and needed infrastructure would bury them. I mean hell, SD couldn't get the infrastructure situated and they're folding up shop (in part due to MLS coming to town, but that directly shows they couldn't sustain in the face of that competition).

    This is what happens when you move to a different league ... you don't play the same teams

    And these two cases are why I actually give credence to MLS' vetting process. Anyone that has actually paid attention to the league remembers the originally STL debacle. THAT, in part, is why it is how it is. When you get a fishy smell or big money walks away from the table ...
    ...
    ...
    and I don't blame the league at all for not accepting anything they don't see as fit.

    And I love that article because it shoots the shit out of many p/r claims LOL
     
  9. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Three straight wooden spoons, to winning the Supporter's Shield in two years .... a story incapable of happening in P/R

    Congrats Cincy
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    It IS irrelevant because as I pointed out the only reason Portsmouth had issues at the time was because of Portsmouth, it has NOTHING to do with the subject matter of this thread. NOBODY makes any club spend more than its means.
     
  11. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They are and I'd like to see them try it but it's still not quite the same if you can't promote to MLS.
     
  12. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why?

    What does MLS have that the USL can't get if they wanted it? The only thing I see is the CCL spots, but the vast, vast majority of the American soccer audience doesn't care about the CCL and honestly, if the USL matched MLS for size and reach they could probably get some of the U.S.'s spots at that point anyway.
     
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  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well yeah, USL belongs to a real estate company. MLS belongs to the owners.
     
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  14. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this a serious response?

    The easiest answer is the top 20+ soccer markets in the US. 2nd is recognition within the US and around the world as the top level of professional soccer in the US. Could go on and on.

    In theory they could challenge MLS and in theory I could be a billionaire. In practice the USL occupies lower division status in the US and in practice I am solidly middle class and neither of those are going to change unless we win the lottery. Which is USL's case would be some sugar daddy who had the means, influence, and desire to go toe-toe with MLS.
     
  15. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since when did what I said become an Anti MLS pro USL point?

    All I said was I thought USL's attendance would be higher if they could promote into MLS that's it. If you disagree with this great explain why, otherwise leave the other crap for other discussions.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let NuRock do its thing. If they introduce pro/rel and its successful it will add weight to the case for pro/rel to a higher level.
     
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  17. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But this goes back to one of the fundamental questions about P/R in this country. MLS put in a lot of money and work to become what it is. Money and work than anyone else can or could have chosen to put in. If the big reason not to do it is that it would likely be unsuccessful, then why is adding those markets through P/R likely to be successful?
     
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  18. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am happy to get into those individual discussions but my original post was simply asking how much would attendance go up if USL was linked to MLS.
     
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  19. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Actually, it probably wouldn't go up by a whole lot. How would a market like Northwest Arkansas fare in a pro/rel system?
     
  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it had more to do with Rochester, than St Louis back in 2008. Remember it came down to Philadelphia and St Louis back then. The league did have a process in place. That process has a proven track record, and was born out of necessity in 2002. The three league owners weren't going to let just anyone into MLS back then no matter how desperate they were.

    The one area where MLS needs a better process is vetting prospective owners who are looking to buy current MLS teams. Look at the near disaster that Anthony Precourt created. I'm still shocked Garber and Co haven't found someone to take over Austin FC from him. There was Andrew Hauptman in Chicago. There's KSE in Colorado (which is more motivation than anything, as they certainly have the money to run a class organization)
     
  21. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably would be a yo-yo club between the SEC and the Sunbelt. To good for the Sunbelt but as we've seen over the last 20 years not good enough for the SEC.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure the Columbus to Austin thing was done with Garber's blessing. He had to backtrack pretty quickly when he saw the reaction.
     
  23. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Garber works for the owners..... the other 16+ owners at that time signed off on the sale of the Crew to Precourt. It's rather telling that the seemingly public face of Austin FC was Matthew McConaughey at the start and NOT Anthony Precourt. Anyone ever hear from him these days publicly in regards to Austin FC?
     
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  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mental gymnastic on full display here. Originally the claim was that NO premier league club had gone into administration. That is 100% false and the proof was provided. So naturally the FACT that there has been a premier league club to go into administration is irrelevant because "reasons"

    LOL ... wow

    That's been done in this convo. P/R is effectively a net zero for att at best, and slightly worse overall as the drops out do the gains over long stretches of data. The numbers are in this convo if you really want to search for them.

    Oh, Rochester absolutely soured the league in a good way in regard to being tight about letting folks in. StL though is quite similar to SAC today though and is a very good example to point to in regard to them. "Money" "stadium plan" etc is there but SOMETHING is missing/not right (for original StL it was backing outside of Cooper) ...
     
  25. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cooper didn't have any money. That's why his bid failed. He was counting on getting in, and after getting his place in MLS the money would flow in. Hmmmm..... that sounds an awful lot like a familiar statement about Pro/Rel in the USA.....
     
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