The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nice, this could make Canadian football worth watching, I'll need a team to follow though - can you give me any idea's?
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sigma FC is the senior team for a pretty good academy which produced Cyle Larin, Richie Laryea and Tajon Buchanan.
     
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  3. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any individual that starts out with an immediate dismissal of an entire post based on a difference of opinion is not worth continuing discourse with.

    Oh look, pot is calling out for kettle again. Though, even were I all three I'm still not a liar, as you are.

    Considering you're clearly a fan of the league structure, and not the sport ... why do you need a team? Seems you'd just be cheering for the pro and rel each season.
     
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  4. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    The NFL teams have not failed, they've moved. Liverpool or Arsenal are unlikely to move because there is already a club in whatever city they'd move to. The Raiders had plenty of fans in Oakland, they moved because some location offered them a better stadium. I do agree the NFL is not super relevant for several reasons though.
    But Wimbledon fans get to watch a team all these years and hope to move up. They may never actually get to the top flight for a long time, but they get to go to games with hope. If I am a San Diego pro-football fan or a Montreal baseball fan; I'd take that over what I have.

    I mean, reading about public stadium financing in Field of Schemes – sports stadium news and analysis , is fun; but not that fun.
     
  5. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
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  6. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This could honestly be said about the whole world at the moment.
     
  7. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with you that public financing of stadiums is scam. I am not talking about helping with infrastructure, or streamlining the permitting or even ways to get more favorable financing terms. I am talking about the City PAYING for 70% of the stadium but the NFL team getting all the revenue, including non game day revenue. That was basically the deal the Cincinnati Bengals got and was what the Chargers wanted. And I agree with you that a closed league makes that easier because the owner can leverage moving the team which is going to be unpopular among the voters.

    BUT this is not exclusive to pro/rel.
     
  8. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, and as I pointed out, there are other ways for SD to have a football team in the professional ranks (and even in the NFL again). Regardless of how unlikely or big of an ask it may be, it CAN happen (and has in the NFL). MTL could get another baseball team too ...

    ... but where are the fans in SD or MTL coming together to actually act on that? Where are efforts to get a AAA, AA, A, short season MTL baseball team? Where are the petitions and efforts for a SD XFL, USFL, indoor team? Why weren't they lining up for AAF expansion when they knew they were going to LA?

    The options and avenues are there regardless of what some folks want to think or admit ...

    As was already pointed out, this happens all over. Sure, it may be common practice here but it ain't exclusive by far.
     
  9. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Not bad for a USL side kid having been wholely developed in the free SAFC academy ...
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wimbledon getting to the top tier was quite unusual. They were a small club. Their two seasons in the 2nd tier before getting to the top division saw them post the 3rd worst average crowd in the division both times, and they had no money behind them.

    They just pioneered an extremely physical tactical plan, basically bludgeoning other teams into submission, with a very high level of gamesmanship, and were probably one of the least liked teams in the league because of it. Cambridge came close to copying them a few years later.

    It probably helped that the 80s were something of a nadir for the game, with low incomes and high bills, and a lot of the traditional 'middle order' were struggling, which opened the door for a few smaller clubs to break through.

    I wouldn't say they have no chance of getting back to the top flight, but at the moment it's a much harder task than it was back then. Give it a few years though, when the reality of overspending in the championship really starts to bite for a lot of clubs, and their could be opportunities again for smaller clubs coming good at the right time.
     
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  11. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    british always talk about this competative balance when their league is not competative. serie a is la liga b liga is it is just epl that has same teams in top 10 for last 3-5 years. i mean league is boring as hell.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a good chance they'll be in the Danish second division next season.
     
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bulgarian First Division pretty much doing this now.
     
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  14. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    is not split season but half a season is playerd with all teams and then my mid point top 6 play top 6 teams bottom 6 play bottom six teams for relegation
     
  15. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, saw that .... But hey, imagine the story if he comes in and helps them avoid the drop!
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, looking at the top 25 leagues in the UEFA coefficients, the top 6 leagues all have a single table, the Netherlands has a single table but with playoffs for the European spots, then 9 of the next 18 leagues employ a split season format.
     
  17. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Mississauga? A suburb of Toronto or a separate city?
     
  18. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You mean 'English' not British right?

    The 'boring as hell' league is BY FAR the worlds most popular football league (hell the worlds most popular sports league). It is also the only football league that is home to 5 different Champions League winners (six if Manchester C. manage to win it).
     
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  19. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What's the point if I don't build an affiliation with a team competing for promotions or against relegations???
     
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  20. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I actually think having the same clubs up there every year helps the appeal for TV fans*, because virtually every one of them will support one of those clubs.

    Even speaking to English fans who've grown up as fans of those clubs, I've found that when I've mentioned that there used to be a 'changing cast' every year at the top, they heavily implied they think it's better now, because they like having the same 'old rivals' battling it out every year. They regard one of big 4/5/6 not being up there with a sadness other fans might feel about a bigger club like Sheffield Wednesday falling on hard times.

    You could see it with Barcelona having to make cuts to pay off their debts - they thought it really sad that Barcelona wouldn't have a great side for a few years. When you have fans who view the game almost entirely through a "top 6 and champions league" prism, that's the outcome. That's their world.


    * it's probably also a factor in why American sports leagues have remained very much niche sports worldwide. You might get bandwagon fans jumping in and nailing their colours to the mast of whichever team is great at the time, but the cap kicks in, and the team breaks up, and the overseas fan loses interest after a few years of mediocrity for their club.
     
  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't that kind of a split season?
     
  22. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    While I appreciate many of your points, I don't think American sports have remained "fringe" because of structure. Rather, I think it is just because most sports are indeed fringe. Even sports that cross borders, like Rugby and Cricket; are essentially fringe. What would be interesting to explore is why baseball, while still fringe, exported to some countries (Panama, Japan, Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela) but gridiron American football never did (except to Canada?).

    College Football (my 2nd favorite sport) has perennial favorites and a pecking order that evolves at a glacial pace. Actually that it is not the only similarity it has with European soccer. Not sure that is relevant to anything but I was just thinking about it (I'm at work on a Saturday, it beats thinking about that).

    Other than soccer, what sports truly are world wide? Golf and Tennis I guess, but they are not team sports. That is one thing that makes soccer/football truly special.
     
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  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Fantastic promotion battle at the top of the National League for the one automatic spot to get into the Football League (and one spot through promotion playoffs). A long way to go given all the covid postponements, but currently six points separate the top seven. A nice mixture of ex Football League teams (Stockport County, my bet for promotion, Chesterfield and Wrexham), teams that have never played in the Football League (Bromley, Boreham Wood and Solihull Moors) and a phoenix team (FC Halifax). Notts County are eighth with games in hand on most of those above them, so they are clearly in contention too.
     
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  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's the point in rooting for a league structure? It's the only reason you found interest.
     
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  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think basketball or ice hockey are niche sports.

    Ice hockey is played pretty much wherever there's access to ice.

    FIBA recognizes 16 major leagues (outside of North America), some of which span multiple countries. And of course there's netball which was invented when someone misread the rules of basketball.

    Pro basketball isn't popular in England but it's still the number one indoor school sport. It was the sport we played in England when the teachers didn't fancy standing around in the cold or rain.

    And every English kid has played rounders, which is baseball with a tennis ball. Of course we grow out of it by the age of 11, and migrate to a more intelligent sport known as cricket. American kids don't get that far ;)

    For that matter I don't think lacrosse is a niche sport. It's played in a lot of British schools but it's considered a girl's sport.
     
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