The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But you admit they exist. So now that we've established both systems can lead to teams playing meaningless games can we move on from this point?
     
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  2. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    No games are meaningless if three points are on the line. By definition that is what they're playing for, as well as the players always playing for their individual futures. Of course, that's not to say a team can't sometimes look like its coasting through a particular game or outright deemphasizing it in favor of another competition, but that happens in "open" leagues as well.
     
  3. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    A classic "both sides do it" argument. I've explained the difference; you choose to ignore it.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, until just now you've been hammering on the mere existence of meaningless games in MLS/closed systems. If you want to get into the subtleties of how many or why, try phrasing your points that way. But your reasoning is just "I don't like playoffs, so having meaningful games for playoff standing isn't as good as having meaningful games to avoid relegation" which, fine, you be you, but there's not much to discuss there.
     
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  5. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It's hardly a subtlety that to attempt to keep some kind of interest in a "regular" season, you need oversized playoffs. It's a significant flaw of closed leagues that doesn't exist in pro/rel leagues, which have interest from the top down and the bottom up.
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? Because you don't like it? Anything beyond that?

    Because the most popular soccer league in this country is now a closed league with playoffs. Seems like it works here.
     
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  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Once again you're choosing to ignore what I've explained.

    Like many posters on this thread, your focus seems to be solely the overarching major league.
     
  8. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't think it would change how I follow the game that much. I would still approach local soccer the same way, where club is more important than league. I would still keep an eye on the MLS clubs I currently keep an eye on regardless of their place in the standings. That said, I probably wouldn't be inclined to follow these clubs to the lower divisions if relegation happened, and most likely I wouldn't just adopt a new first division club to follow. I wouldn't go so far as to call myself an LA Galaxy "supporter" for instance, but I've had something of a soft spot for the club since its inception and have always enjoyed following them as they make various waves in MLS. It wouldn't be quite the same if they're in USL playing Hartford or the NeoCosmos or whoever, and depending on how long it takes to get back to the first division I can't say I'd be guaranteed to jump on the wagon again.

    That's kind of what happened to me with Fulham. I've never been one to adopt a European club as my own, but I came closest to doing so with Fulham. Then relegation took away my ability to follow them from a practical standpoint as I didn't have that easy NBC Sports access, and by the time they popped up for another year in the Premier League I'd lost what connection I had.
     
  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno.....Looking at this past Sunday's slate of EPL games.....

    Man City vs Norwich......didn't matter. City was securely in 2nd with no chance to improve or worsen their position. Norwich was relegated two weeks earlier....

    Burnley - Brighton-Hove Albion.......both secure in mid-table with no chance for European places and secure from relegation

    Liverpool - Newcastle......L'Pool won the league weeks earlier, and Newcastle was safely in midtable....

    Southampton - Sheffield United........Again both safely in midtable, with no threat of relegation or any chance at a European place...

    I thought that EVERY game had stakes???
     
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Er...I think 2017 was a bit special. Jackson Yueill and Miles Robinson are definitely on Berhalter's radar. Lewis and Ebobisse were also in the top 6.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Liverpool started Mane, Salah, Alexander-Arnold and Firmino on the bench.
     
  12. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But none of those players are say a Larin ( impact player). If either one of those players didn't play would you think their respective teams would be in trouble? They're good players don't get me wrong but they're not going to turn around a poor team like a great DP level player or even a TAM level one.
     
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  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True that. Portland aren't going to build a dynasty around Jeremy Ebobisse.
     
  14. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ATL is absolutely a peg lower without Robinson in the back line.

    Chris Meuller has been the only life ORL has had consistently in his 3 years there.
    Gressel was an absolute impact player in ATL
    Harrison with NYCFC
    Parker, Roldan, Blake ...

    There's a few players each year that have that ability
     
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  15. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah but ATL isn't struggling right now because he's not playing are they? Not having Martinez is what's ailing them and again I'm not saying they aren't good players, what I'm saying is NO team in MLS is tanking to get a shot at possibly getting a decent to good player. And honestly you'll get fewer and fewer players of that caliber as MLS youth teams start getting better since the really good ones will already have had dibs on them from their MLS academy affiliation.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Harrison was drafted by Chicago.
     
  17. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That "trade" was criminal by Chicago by the way.
     
  18. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Umm.....Atlanta is struggling because they've lost:

    Gressel
    Parkhurst
    Gonzalez-Pires
    Garza
    Almiron
    Pogba
    Villaba
    Nagbe
    Meram
    Velazquez
    Ambrose


    They've lost 5 starters from their MLS Cup winning team, 6 if you include losing Martinez to injury. With that much roster turnover it shouldn't be surprising how much they are struggling.

    Point being, yes Martinez is a huge loss, however he was merely papering over the cracks in the roster to begin with. Much like Zlatan did with the Galaxy.
     
  19. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And immediately traded ... NYCFC wanted him and would've drafted him
     
  20. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Something, something sporting merit
     
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  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That never works. In 2006/07 Sheffield United tried suing the league to prevent relegation after it was found that West Ham, who finished 3 points above them, had illegally acquired Tevez and Mascherano.
     
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW, Notts County are owned by the brothers who run Football Radar.
     
  23. Biggest transfer spenders of all time:
    Biggest spenders
    1. FC Barcelona - 2.42 billion
    2. Real Madrid - 2.38 billion
    3. Chelsea - 2.27 billion
    4. Juventus - 2.21 billion
    5. Manchester City - 2.11 billion
    6. Inter - 2,03 billion
    7. Manchester United - 1.91 billion
    8. Liverpool - 1.65 billion
    9. AC Milan - 1.60 billion
    10. Paris Saint-Germain - 1.59 billion
    PSG is remarkable, given the short time they're a top flight team

    Dutch spenders of all times:
    Big spenders Netherlands
    1. Ajax - 471.27 million euro
    2. PSV - 374.87 million euro
    3. Feyenoord - 182,46 million euro
    4. AZ - 117.56 million euro
    5. FC Twente - 82.11 million euro
     
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  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're the 10th biggest spender since they reached the top-flight in 1974. Before 1974/75 the biggest spenders were...SC Feyenoord.

    1 SC Feyenoord $2.97m
    2 FC Internazionale $2.90m
    3 Everton FC $2.66m
    4 FC Barcelona $2.20m
    5 Manchester United $1.93m

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/transf...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #27525 M, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    I feel sorry for Notts County's supporters, but Harrogate Town's 3-1 playoff final victory over them today to secure promotion to the Football League is a remarkable pro/rel story. This is a team that was in only its second season ever at the fifth level and had spent its prior entire history at the sixth or lower levels. When neighbouring York City played at the second level in the mid '70's, Harrogate were playing in the lowly Yorkshire League Division Two. Now Harrogate will play in the Football League and York will be at the sixth level next season.
     
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