The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    88 entered US Open Cup qualifying.
     
  2. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's overstating it, and not just by a little. Although those leagues have hundreds of clubs between them, only about 30 clubs in all three leagues combined are not in metro areas of over 1 million. The UPSL is especially clustered around major cities; six UPSL conferences are contained entirely within a single metropolitan area, and many more are contained entirely within two major metropolitan areas.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not unusual for UPSL teams to share the same stadium. The entire Southeast Conference Florida Central Division calls Young Pine Community Park home, and no fewer than 14 teams across 4 divisions base themselves at Lake Forest Sports Park in California.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To correct myself, Young Pine Community Park doesn't have a stadium, just a couple of pitches in the baseball outfield.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To correct myself, Young Pine Community Park doesn't have a stadium, just a couple of pitches in the baseball outfield.
     
  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Maybe I'm missing your point here, but very few of those teams in L2 or NPSL have another team in the same metro area, so New Orleans Jesters' competitors are from Gulfport (short trip) to Jacksonville (long trip); Inter Nashville's closest rival is in Huntsville, etc. Out west, this is even more extreme. Midland Odessa's conference includes Denton and Brownsville.

    Yes, the largest cities will likely have more than 1 (although generally not many more), but their conference will cover multiple states.
     
  7. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Speaking of overstating things, there are 50 clubs that fit this profile in NPSL and L2 alone.
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mentioned hundreds of teams. If we leave out UPSL, for the reasons mentioned above, there are 175. Those teams play an average of 7 away games.

    Not arguing, just clarifying.
     
  9. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Just skimming the list, I've already counted around 40 or so in UPSL that also fit the profile, so I'm not UPSL is that much of an exception. This also ignores all of the regional leagues. I mean, yes, I guess I still misinterpreted the original point, but metro size really doesn't seem to have that much impact because there are lots of teams in very small metros that travel to other metros.

    It also ignores where a team plays in a metro area: I'm not counting teams way out in the suburbs/exurbs. I doubt many are making a trek from Islip or New Brunswick to catch Stockade matches, but I left them out because they're in the NYC metro area.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Stockade are actually 90 miles north of New York City. Geographically the NYC MSA is huge!
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    That's what I'm saying! Yet they'd fall into "metro areas larger than 1 million", despite being at the edge, rather than anywhere near the center.
    And lots of NPSL/USL2/UPSL teams are like that.

    But, regardless, it's hard to try to make much sense of the amateur game here without acknowledging college soccer's effect on the situation.
     
  12. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get my romance from the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup; I don't need pro/rel.
     
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  13. The PSV team now actually making the pitch costed 9 million vs 55 million sitting on the bench.
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  15. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would want a system that lessens the competition.

    So how is the champions league doing that? That's what you need to explain.

    The current format of the champions league does reduce parity across Europe. Not disagreeing on that, and there are a lot of reasons for it. But the "Pro/rel" aspect of Champions league is NOT one of the things driving this. As a matter of fact it is one of the few counter weights, because it's purely based on where you finish not on how much money you bring to the competition. In a world where the Champions league participation was decided on pure financial importance you had better believe Man United and Arsenal would be there at the expense of Atalanta, Lyon, or Valencia.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England, Spain, Germany and Italy are the best places to finish, thanks to money.
     
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  17. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the Prem (or any domestic league) it lessens the competition by continuously stuffing the coffers at the top end. In the CL itself it expanded to let in lesser teams.

    We've seen the overwhelming corresponding of money spent and table placement in domestic leagues. The rich outspend their domestic counterparts and continually "promote" to the CL. That, in turn helps to create the separation of the top end from the rest of the table.

    We've had more than one person cite that exact thing in this discussion.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #25919 Paul Berry, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
    HailtotheKing and blacksun repped this.
  19. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this has what to do with the pro/rel aspect of the champions league? Assuming that you would still have some sort of European wide competition.
     
  20. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was referring specifically to the way Champions league places are being chosen.

    The argument was pro/rel is creating the lack of parity, and since the champions league uses a system that is sort of like pro/rel to choose it's places, and the champions league is helping the lack of parity, then pro/rel is creating the lack of parity. An argument I strongly disagreed with, although I don't disagree that the Champs league is growing the wealth divide, just the idea that pro/rel is at fault.
     
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  21. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's literally the response you quoted ...

    ...
     
  22. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OOOOKay
     
  23. miladmaz12

    miladmaz12 Member

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only 3 Ascenso clubs are objecting: Cafetaleros, Correcaminos and Leones Negros. Several will become USL style affiliates or possibly reserve teams, at least in the short- term.

    The hiatus is supposed to benefit first and second division teams financially.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.

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