The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Would it make you feel better if we told you that the MLS playoffs are - get this - a cup final?
     
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  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    All American playoffs are.
     
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  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both English both rugby codes switched to playoff systems to make their sports more appealing and the 140,000 people at the combined playoff finals seem to think it's worked.
     
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  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Should also be noted that the World's premier Professional Rugby Competition (Super Rugby) utilizes BOTH a closed league and a playoff.....which hasn't seemed to hurt the national teams of South Africa, Australia and New Zealand......
     
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  5. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yes but it pales in comparison to football!! If you want to know the best team then a playoff makes a nonsense of it! When my own team Chelsea won the Champions League not only was it plainly obvious that they weren't the best team in Europe they weren't even one of the best five teams in England!!! European Champions yes perhaps but the best team in Europe? F*ck off! And THAT is why a playoff system simply DOES NOT ascertain the seasons best team! If you really wanted to know the best team in Europe then it's going to have to be a league pyramid format where everybody in the top league are there on merit and they ALL play EACH OTHER home and away, that seems obvious to people - it's also a system that appeals to people which is why the sports leagues that use it are BY FAR the world's most popular sports leagues, there is the proof & if the world's richest nation, a nation that excels at exporting all its popular culture WITH EXCEPTION to it's sports and despite chucking enormous amounts of money at promoting it too wants its sports to become mote popular worldwide then I suggest mimicking the world's mist popular league (by far) would be a good way to go about it - but if people are happy for their sports to be popular in the US only then really it's up to them.
     
  6. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look. There's only one fair way to crown a champion:

    WIN THE COMPETITION YOU'RE PLAYING IN ACCORDING TO THE RULES.

    If you're in a competition where total points over the course of the season crowns the champion, win as many games as you can or shut up.

    If you're in a group stage followed by a knockout competition, advance out of your group, then win your knockout games... or shut up.

    If you play in a league that has a postseason tournament based on standings, qualify for the playoffs, win the tournament, or, well... yeah. Shut up.

    As long as everyone involved understands the rules and the stakes, it's all good.
     
  7. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. For American Football to become as popular as soccer in Europe, the NFL must install promotion and relegation.

    My son, you've gone to the zoo.
     
  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    The problem here is that you've conflated "best team" with "champion".
     
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  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hi, the NBA would like to say hello. It is BY FAR the most popular Professional Basketball League in THE WORLD. Major League Baseball is BY FAR the most popular Professional Baseball League in THE WORLD.

    This information is from 2018, and not sure how reliable this website is:

    https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/nfl/the-top-10-sports-leagues-in-the-world/

    It appears US Sports Leagues are in fact VERY popular worldwide.
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yes quite, you can be an FA cup champion without being the best team. There is no problem with that, I was obviously pleased when Chelsea were European Champions, of course I was, but the idea of league football is to ascertain the 'best' team in the country and it is here only that I have issues with a playoff finish for the reasons I have given. I didnt say there is anything wrong with cup competitions but a playoff at the end of a 38 game season which might result in (clearly) an inferior team (say the team that finishes 6th) being claimed league Champions is where it would make a mockery of the 38 game league before it.
     
  11. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    As popular as football? Perhaps not, more appealing, yep I reckon so, certainly judging from conversations I've had with my peers.
     
  12. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Lol, what exactly do they base those findings on? :-D
     
  13. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’re making this up. You’re straight lying.

    There isn’t a single person in the world holding this position. There isn’t a single soccer fan in the world who sees a 90-minute, free-flowing game with low scoring, limited substitutions and the skill-over-physicality nature of the sport, who ALSO sees football, the commercial-filled, five seconds-per-play, violent as hell, high-scoring slug-fest, and draws the conclusion that what would elevate the second sport to the level of the first one is to relegate the Washington Redskins and replace them with a semi-pro team from Yak Dick, South Dakota or Frog Balls, Arkansas.

    You’re lying.
     
  14. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The NFL seems to sell out their games in London.
     
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  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just fyi, a lot of those fans come from northern Europe. Berlin to London is a sub two hour flight and a round trip costs $30 on Ryanair.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nevertheless, the 3rd and 4th most popular professional leagues in England have both introduced playoffs successfully as a way of increasing interest and revenue in their respective sports.
     
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  17. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I'm not, the term 'Micky Mouse' league has nothing to do with the standard of play! Perhaps everone Ive spoken to 'over here' is lying then? Perhaps the popularity of the EPL is because of the pretty colours of the team kits?
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People don't start watching the Premier League because of pro/rel. Sure it's an interesting feature and can be used as a reason for knocking MLS.

    If pro/rel was introduced in MLS the knockers would just find another reason to call it Mickey Mouse.
     
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  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Wait, is this talking about NFL or MLS?
     
  20. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, not exactly .... the CL field is made up of teams based on the season of games the year prior. Once that season is completed the qualified teams move on to the group stage where they play round robin to determine who qualifies for the knockout round.

    Does the FA cup have a qualification process? The League Cup? They Copa del Rey? What cup finals also include an entire season's worth of matches as qualifiers like the CL or Sudamericana or CCL or ACL do?

    I will say again to make it clear - you can debate ManU was better than ManCity in 11-12

    Even though Arsenal pipped it by a point in the end, my senior year of HS 97/98 ManU was the better team.

    Blackburn's title was thanks to Cantona getting banned and ManU players acting like the Dallas Cowboys off the field. ManU was better than Rovers.

    Even in single table/round-robin ... there is debate to be had some years.

    But it's cool for a promotion spot though eh?
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong.

    ;)
     
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  22. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL ... I'm going WAY OUT ON A LIMB HERE and saying they'd have made up more than that point if Cantona had been on the field (especially with how he was lighting up the league that year). That alone LIKELY would've found them 3-6pts on the run in.

    I know, REALLY RISKY claim.
     
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but to be fair, Man U knew that Cantona was a time bomb waiting to go off when they signed him. Maybe they couldn't have seen that level of explosion coming, but you play with fire and you get burned eventually.
     
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  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It's also two (?) games a year.
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Zero methodology enunciated in that article. It's pointless.
     

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