The All-Encompassing Playoffs-in-Soccer Thread

It's a bit diluted at the MLS level ... but until they decide where their final number is, I'm not too buggered about it.

 

I've always stated in the p/r topic (because many folks over here that are hard chargers for it are vehement followers of our sports) that there is this fantastical view of soccer for "no reason" ... and that there's nothing inherent to soccer that makes it different than other sports in regard to structuring it in a certain way.

Here you state that perhaps there IS something to soccer ...

Maybe this is where our academic sporting has put the rift in things? Our teams in other sports share much of what makes the attachment in soccer so special (but it is widely associated with college allegiances here).

I love playoffs but understand the pro/rel bit. I do however feel that p/r playoffs are the actual correct and proper way to deal with it IF you choose to structure with p/r.

 

The home/home legs should be how it is until the final IMO (******** off with away goals btw)

As for the last part we'd need 10-15 SUSTAINED of the likes of SA, PHX, Lou, SAC (though debate now) types to even think about it. There are other markets that fit that bill but the soccer effort is MILES away. Even then I do agree MOSTLY with stadium reqs ... but would see them amended to maybe 8-12k cap and if it isn't SSS it's soccer first multi use.
Even then I'd want promotion playoffs vs the potential relegated top clubs. You want in? Cool, actually earn it. Beat the folks you'd be replacing. I've never believed that beating inferior comp alone earns you anything over a club that played superior comp to you.

 

I like playoffs in MLS and USL.

 

I prefer playoffs. The atmosphere of win or go home is always just more fun to me. Even when I’m watching Euro soccer a really huge league matchup doesn’t quite appeal to me like a Champions League knockout game.

 

Often times the "Big League" matchups don't live up to the hype. They more often end in draws as neither team wants to risk losing their place in the Table.

I prefer the drama of playoff games. The NCAA Tournament is a prime example, same with the conference tournaments.

Playoffs reward teams who improve consistently over the course of a season. It also allows teams to overcome injuries to key players.

 

sports are supposed to be fun. they are not a referendum on some greater truth that needs to be established or protected or some sanctity that insists that if the playoff champion is different than the team that "earned it" over the course of the longer season that everything is invalid and must be blown up.

we watch sports specifically because we often don't know what is going to happen and what does happen might be vastly different from what we expected after paying attention over the course of a summer or winter. (hello, 2001 seattle mariners.)

is that fair? who gives a sh**? nothing is fair. it's entertainment. that's all it is.

 

Nothing wrong with the concept of playoffs. The problem in US closed leagues is that, absent a second incentive from the bottom of the table up, you end up with oversized playoffs that detract from the "regular" season. So, in closed US leagues at least, there absolutely is a relationship between playoffs and pro/rel. Or, rather, the lack of pro/rel.

 

Yes, but when the entertainment is engineered, it sometimes doesn't seem right.

A classic example would be the end to last year's Formula 1 season. Under the regulations, as they stood, Lewis Hamilton would have won the title under a safety car, due to a late crash, when he'd been well clear and coasting to the win without it.

The race director decided this would be a poor way to end the season, and let the lapped cars unlap themselves, meaning Verstappen, on fresh tyres, would restart from right behind Hamilton for one final lap. It made for great TV, and a very dramatic finish to the season, but there was almost no way Hamilton could hold him off on degraded tyres, and was passed really quickly, meaning the great last lap showdown was anything but.

Hamilton quite rightly felt "cheated", with has tactical plan destroyed in the name of entertainment, and Verstappen, while he'll still enjoy being champion, will als have to acknowledge his title will have something of an asterisk next to it.


Overall though, the competition is what is it, and people will accept the rules of that competition. People grumbled when rugby union brought in a play-off, but it's fully accepted now. The winner of the final is considered the champion, and being top of the league after all 22 games means very little, just as being third in a promotion race means nothing.

 

Football is the number one sport in Europe and the format works particularly in the big leagues.

But if the only prize was winning the title it wouldn't be nearly as interesting, except in the case of a Leicester 2016.

The thing that makes the top of the table so exciting, particularly in the top 5 leagues is the fight for UCL, UEL and whatever the other competition is called, places. And that's because of what is at stake.

Other sports and other leagues, where 6 or 7 teams don't qualify for Europe have been experimenting with other formats.

The Eredivisie has introduced playoffs for European places. Several leagues have introduced a split season where the top half play for the title and the bottom half play for the relegation places.

Most other sports, which don't have an incentive as great as the UEL, have introduced playoffs for eyeballs and for revenue. The excitement of the playoffs attracts attention to the sport and generates big attendances and TV audiences.

For instance, the average attendance in the Anglo/French rugby league in 2019 was 8,441. The attendance for the playoff final was 64,102. Rugby League is a traditional sport. The league format dates back to 1896, 8 years after the Football League was formed.

The rugby union Premiership averaged 14,083. The final attracts some 82,000.

Yet English soccer fans, many of whom also enjoy rugby, criticize the MLS playoff format flock to playoff finals in other sports.

 

And there's this pesky thing called pro/rel that creates interest from the bottom up... so no need to have the oversized playoffs that US closed leagues end up with.

 

Actually the Premiership has suspended relegation.

 

I was referring to pro/rel leagues not needing oversized playoffs. A 12 team Rugby League Premiership with six in the playoffs and one relegated was pretty silly imo. Even with relegation suspended, it's in teh trap US closed leagues are in of needing oversized playoffs to retain interest for enough teams.

 

Rugby union.

 

Less than a third of teams in its playoffs. Relegation to be reinstated post a covid moratorium. Not sure what your point is?

 

Yep, that was the "excuse". Not sure what your point is?

 

So what are you trying to say as regards rugby union’s reasonably sized playoffs? If your insinuation is correct that they won’t restore a pro/rel place I bet they will expand their playoffs a la American closed leagues and end up with the oversized playoffs that blight such leagues.

 

There is nothing 'wrong' with 'playoffs' in certain situations, its just that the league champion should NEVER be decided by a playoff because that just makes a mockery of the season.

 

So the World Cup is just one big mockery then, got it. So are the Euros, Copa America, etc ... got it.

TRULY, the Nations League is the only real National Team competition then yeah?

 

So the vast majority of professional team sports around the world are a 'mockery. You're entitled to your opinion.