The 2023 U-20 Player Pool Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by David Kerr, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think Rotundo is a player who could still become a good pro, but he’s clearly just not progressed physically/athletically the way everyone would’ve liked and is no longer one of the better 04’s.

    He’s still a good prospect, but how much do we hear about Allan Juarez or Victor Valdez? He’s over-discussed, which isn’t unusual for players that had some earlier hype. I think eventually though we have to realize that Rotundo has found his level. Him not being part of YNT’s recently is more due to him not being up to the level.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would have liked to see the US play in the Toulon tournament. I feel like we could have sent an interesting team. It would have been guys too old for the U20s but eligible for the next Olympics. But I imagine they won’t get that team going unless we qualify.
     
    Namdynamo, luvdagame, xbhaskarx and 3 others repped this.
  3. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would you care to elaborate?
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I've been thinking about who are some players we should call into a camp before the U-20 WC next year, assuming we qualify.

    I came up with a list of 64 I'd like to see get tested out. I'm keeping this to players who've yet to be in a camp. Obviously guys like Leyva, Walls, Castilla, Karumanchi, Hopkins that have call-ups this cycle, but didn't make the final qualifying team should also be considered.

    GK (7): Dewsnup ('04), Jones ('03), Cordes ('03), Tibbetts ('04), Sunderland ('03), Emmings ('04), Reyes ('03)
    DF (17): Freeman ('04), Reynolds ('04), Duenas ('04), Smith ('03), Clarke ('05), Baker ('04), Prince ('04), Kinzner ('03), Wynder ('05), Marshall ('05), Alvarez ('03), Foster ('03), Viviani ('04), Velasquez ('04), Travis ('04), Padelford ('03), Cobian ('04)
    DM/CM (13): Nyeman ('03), Chifamba ('03), Nydegger ('03), Booth ('04), Morales ('04), Hot ('04), Gilman ('04), Raines ('05), Baker-Whiting ('05), Barrera ('04), Ordonez ('05), McCloud ('04), Wolff ('04)
    AM/Wing (16): Paredes ('03), Bernal ('03), Garcia ('03), Freeman ('03), Aboukoura ('04), Salley ('04), Oliva ('04), Rotundo ('04), Villal ('05), Faupel ('05), Valencia ('05), Torres ('04), Toure ('04), Nava ('03), Borso ('04), Jaime ('04)
    CF (11): Mitchell ('03), Sarver ('03), Roou ('03), Weah ('03), Ikoba ('03), Bezerra ('03), Yapi ('04), Otoya ('04), Osundina ('04), Sullins ('04), Thaggard ('05)
     
  5. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    What opportunities do the U20s have to play as a national team when it’s not the regional qualifying tourney or actual WC?
     
  6. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Not sure I totally understand the question -- isn't the answer that they get together for camps and tournaments like every other YNT? FWIW, under Ramos, post-qualifying the U20s generally got together just once or twice between qualifying and the finals, often for an overseas gathering. But it's a new day, who knows how things will be run now.
     
    TheFalseNine repped this.
  7. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham

    Do they get a chance to play in competitive friendlies or friendly tournaments? The point of the question is to try and figure out how much opportunity these teams get to play when the result may be at least somewhat less important. For the continental championship or the WC, my view is that results are more important than style. But working on style is valuable and I wondered when older youth teams get a chance to play competitive games where they can afford to miss a result in the name of development.
     
  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's also the case that under Ramos the U20 qualifying tournaments were held closer to the actual U20 World Cup itself, so there were also just less international windows available where the team could gather. The last two were held in February/March the year of and November the year before.

    In theory if we qualify we have the September and March windows and we could theoretically host a camp during the World Cup or in January for domestic based players.
     
  9. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I think the short answer is we don't really know. During 4 cycles under Ramos the U20s generally got together about 10 times, give or take, not counting major tournaments, each cycle, covering camps and tournaments and whatnot over that time. Most of those were before qualifying. Pools were maybe 80 or so guys. It's a new regime and I have no idea how the program is being broadly run (in terms of what U.S. Soccer sees as ideal) now, but it does seem like fewer gatherings and a slightly smaller pool. Maybe they'll ramp things up post-qualifying, assuming they go through. There does seem to be time for more camps and for more players to emerge.
     
    TheFalseNine repped this.
  10. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I have no idea if this is news, but FIFA yesterday confirmed the host and timing of the U20 tournament:

    In December 2020, as a consequence of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Bureau decided to cancel the 2021 edition of the FIFA U-20 World Cup™ and appointed the Football Association of Indonesia (PSSI) to host the competition in 2023. Following discussions with the PSSI, as well as consultations with all confederations, the Bureau has confirmed that the tournament will be played from 20 May to 11 June 2023.
    https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/me...es-increase-of-fifa-world-cup-tm-squads-to-26
     
  11. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Now that we've qualified for the U20s, we can start playing fantasy manager again. Assuming the rules from 2019 are unchanged, I think basically you just get to add another GK. Even setting aside potential injuries, fairly substantial roster turnover can be expected, though as been noted there could be quite a few conflicts with other competitions.
     
    gomichigan24 and TheFalseNine repped this.
  12. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    For fun, 2019 qualifying:

    Akinola Ayomide "Ayo"
    Amaya Franuel "Frankie"
    Angking Isaac
    Araujo Julian
    Dest Sergino
    Dorsey Griffin
    Dos Santos CJ (late injury scratch, replaced by Ochoa)
    Fontana Anthony
    Gloster Chris
    Lindsey Jaylin
    Llanez Jr. Ulysses
    McKenzie Mark
    Mendez Alex
    Ochoa David
    Perez Emmanuel "Manny"
    Pomykal Paxton
    Real Matthew
    Rennicks Justin
    Richards Christopher
    Rogers Sam
    Scott Brady
    Servania Brandon
    Soto Sebastian
    Torres Juan Pablo
    That count looks a bit funky because Richards, Dest and Soto replaced Angking, Fontana and Dorsey partway through the tournament.

    And 2019 final:

    Akinola Ayomide "Ayo" (late injury scratch, replaced by Araujo)
    Araujo Julian
    Dest Sergino
    Dos Santos CJ
    Gloster Chris
    Llanez Jr. Ulysses
    McKenzie Mark
    Mendez Alex
    Ochoa David
    Pomykal Paxton
    Real Matthew
    Rennicks Justin
    Richards Christopher
    Scott Brady
    Servania Brandon
    Soto Sebastian
    Cerrillo Edwin
    de la Fuente Konrad
    Durkin Chris
    Keita Aboubacar
    Ledezma Richie
    Weah Timothy
    Obviously it's a different coach, different pool, different time, so I wouldn't make too much out of it, but still kinda interesting.
     
    Pl@ymaker and gogorath repped this.
  13. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Are there only 3? I would've expected 4-5. There should be two between the end of qualifying and the rest of the year, and then 2-3 next year.
     
    Winoman, Boysinblue and TheFalseNine repped this.
  15. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you’re right. I bet they’ll try to fit in a couple more before the WC.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  16. Any FIFA window should feature a camp. Maybe even have an early camp in Europe.
     
    ussoccer97531, Winoman and TheFalseNine repped this.
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have the September window and the March window plus a likely January camp.

    You could in theory also do a camp during the World Cup but anything else will be outside an international window so you’d have issues with releases.
     
    butters59 repped this.
  18. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    They should stay with the clubs that developed them more and have get together fun less. 3 camps would be enough. And when someone argues about Mexico non stop camps the answer should be "And what?".
     
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.
  19. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think they should try to do one outside the windows in the Fall and out outside the windows in the Spring. Not all players who are in consideration are players that teams will refuse to release. They did a camp in April, and it worked well. They should be doing one in October/November and then one in April.
     
    TheFalseNine repped this.
  20. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Okoh should absolutely be a big target. Gomez also. Try to get those two guys to play for us at this tournament.

    Both may say no, but now you can use it as a recruiting tool.
     
  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I posted this on twitter, but for discussion purposes here, I did player grades for all the players 1-10 after each game. This is what the final averages ended up being.

    Alvarado: 8.25
    Neal: 7.7
    Craig: 7.6
    Allen: 7.5
    Sullivan: 7.5
    Aaronson: 7.29
    Brady: 7.16
    Hopkins: 7
    Ferkranus: 6.9
    Cuevas: 6.79
    McGlynn: 6.78
    Luna: 6.78
    Carrera: 6.75
    Pukstas: 6.75
    Clark: 6.71
    Edelman: 6.67
    Tsakiris: 6.5
    Cowell: 6.5
    Halliday: 6.42
    Wolff: 6.21
     
  23. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    This is interesting in that it probably differs from what one might give for a player's body of work for the tournament rather than breaking it down game by game. That said, the bottom dwellers on the game by game average are close to what I would rate for the body of work. At the top end I'm comfortable with Alvarado being #1, and then I would place Aaronson. Probably the most misleading average is Cuevas, who was played out of position, at LB. I'd like to think that had Varas played him entirely at RB his average would be higher.
     
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    My take on where all the guys from qualifying stand for the U-20 WC. Some of this is based on what happened in qualifying, and some isn't.

    Locks: Brady, Neal, Craig, Cuevas, Alvarado, Sullivan, Aaronson

    Locks: I think almost all of these guys would have been in this category before qualifying. I would've debated Craig between this and the likely category before the tournament (leaning heavily towards lock), but his performances put him squarely in the lock territory. Cuevas could go into likely, but when you consider that on a roster of limited numbers that he plays RB and LB, that helps a lot towards making the team. He's also the main captain, which isn't insignificant. I can't see how he doesn't earn a spot. Aaronson went from between Likely/True Toss-Up to very narrowly a lock. I don't rate him as high as some, but he had a good tournament, and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation. You have to place some level of reward on qualification performances. Others were complete locks IMO either way.

    Likely: Clark, Allen, Cowell

    You could've argued for Cowell and Clark as locks before the tournament, but after it they certainly aren't. Clark is more likely than Cowell. He also isn't carrying a suspension into the U-20 WC. I think both these guys make it, but they still have work to do. Allen had a very good qualifying campaign. That helped him from true toss-up and put him into the likely category. I know Wiley is very hyped up, but I think Allen is clearly presently better and potentially the better long-term prospect. Even if you say they are neck and neck, it's not like it's any guarantee that Gomez plays for us at the U-20 and Paredes is not a natural LB. There needs to be two of them on the team, so Allen becomes likely IMO.

    True Toss-up: Halliday, Ferkranus, McGlynn, Edelman, Hopkins

    Halliday had a very up and down tournament. I'm far from convinced. Let's see other RB's get their try. They may be better options. Ferkranus was pretty solid, but I'm just not sure there was much he could do at qualifying that would put him anything better than in the toss-up category. The good news for him is that he didn't lower his stock. Other CB's need to be tried out. McGlynn held steady in qualifying. Very situational player. May not fit with the players around him. I think it's going to come down to the wire, and depend on who else is part of the team. Edelman is also probably another that comes down to the wire in the midfield. Is there room for a true glue guy type of player? Hopkins could go into the unlikely category, but I think he's a player who has gradually been trending up, and he can play as a #9.

    Unlikely: Carrera, Pukstas

    Carrera did his job in qualifying and is a quality GK prospect, but you'd have to think that the numbers game is not favorable towards him. Slonina and Dewsnup are both ahead of him in the pecking order IMO, he's not so far clear of options below him in the pecking order (Borto and others), and then there's the fact that we often take a U-18 GK who can be eligible next cycle as #3. Pukstas also did his job in qualifying, and was unfortunately used out of position and got injured. He didn't hurt his chances and he's a pretty good prospect, but I think he's clearly not a fit as a #6 and we likely have better #8 options. If he's playing regularly in the first division of Croatia this season, he's not out of it, but I'd say it's unlikely.

    Completely out: Wolff, Tsakiris, Luna

    Wolff is pretty self-explanatory. Struggled in qualifying. Probably was the worst player on the team going in. He's not a bad prospect, but not US U-20 WC team quality IMO. Tsakiris is too young IMO. Struggled in qualifying. He'll be an option for next cycle. We have better options for this cycle. Luna wasn't bad during qualifying, but I just see the same exact problems as before. Against minnows that stand off you and preferably lack athleticism, he's brilliant. We'll see even less of those at the U-20 WC. He may pan out eventually, but I don't see how I'm convinced he should be on the team in the next 10 months.
     
    TheFalseNine repped this.
  25. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Absolutely, I would say my rankings of their play also differs from their average score.

    I agree about Cuevas, and there are other areas of the data I could also nitpick. Some guys get easier games than others and more minutes than others. It's easier to play from the start against a minnow than come in with 30 minutes left when you are only passing the ball around from side to side. Wolff is someone who suffered in that area. I think he might still be the worst, but probably not by as much as he was.

    The one area I think it's a good barometer is the difference between how everyone sees the attack compared to the defense. Coming in all we heard was how weak the defense is. They allowed two goals in 7 games. While guys like Aaronson and Sullivan piled up high statistical totals and certainly did well, is that more impressive than what the defenders did? I think in general this is sometimes a problem with analysis in this sport. Guys like Craig and Neal are just not going to get the credit they deserve in proportion to Sullivan and Aaronson.
     
    TheFalseNine repped this.

Share This Page