The 2023 U-17 Player Pool Thread

People are so obsessed with the concept of competition that sometimes people don't realize that lower competition but a different focus can be beneficial.

A player like Brenden Aaronson absolutely benefited by staying in MLS and more importantly, being the focal point of the offense.

You can't develop as a playmaker or a star if the team you are on puts you in a supporting role. That's my fear with what is happening with Gill at Barca -- look, he's not good enough to be a Barca midfielder (who is?) -- so let's swing him to outside back.

That makes sense for Barca, and maybe it makes sense for Gill if he only wants to hope to play for Barca. But maybe he could be a hell of a CM but will he get a chance to develop?

 

Absolutely true. There are two potential benefits here: one, being the focal point in the offense; second, there can be an emotional attachment/appeal to developing a player. Seattle was going to do literally everything it could to make Jordan Morris the best possible player he could be. Random Euro Team X probably wouldn't have bothered.

Some players need the nice-guy approach, some need the kick in the ass; it's foolish to lionize one over the other.

 

Yep.

Motivation is personal.
Role on the team matters.
The investment of the team in a player - financial and emotional -- matters.
Competition matters, but it isn't the only thing.

Sebastian Soto could be knocking in goals for RSL right now and he'd likely be 100 miles ahead in his career. Instead, he's mostly not played for a bunch of teams that don't really care if he stays or goes.

Even Richie Ledezma, whose career has not gone poorly, was born a month and a half before Brenden Aaronson. Before moving to Europe, Ledezma was the star of the USYNT, and Brenden wasn't even on it. Now Brenden is on Leeds, likely to start, making bank and just had a $30M transfer.

All of this is far more dictated by the player, but Aaronson has stepped up in time, getting first team minutes, being a key offensive cog, in successive teams while Ledezma fought with a bunch of prospects for time at PSV.

Is Aaronson more talented? Certainly, his work rate is better. But I think a big part of it is Aaronson got to shine. Ledezma never got that investment.

Is Jesus Ferreira on the national team if he went to Europe. I honestly doubt it.

I think it is very personal, and player to player. But honestly, unless I was a Gio Reyna - Christian Pulisic level of talent, I'd absolutely hesitate. Honestly, in terms of players who probably developed more than expectations In Europe, there's Weston ... and ... eh? I guess Alvarado looks like a success story, maybe?

Ledezma, Sargent, Mendez, Gloster, Kayo, Llanez, Soto ... none of these guys have developed as planned. Some have -- Tim Weah went to PSG at like 15 or 16 and has done well. But even he was delayed by being at PSG and I wonder what it cost his development.

Europeans think nothing of Haaland going from Norway to Austria to Germany to England. But in the US, our fans would have been screaming for him to move to a bigger country at 16.

Progression is important.

 

Yeah, but he would have gotten a lot of time.

 

Didn't ruin JOB who was LB for Ajax and CM fot the NT.

 

1 minute or 1000 minutes, totally useless (for the purposes of getting better) in DC's current situation.

 

Sargent was brainwashed by Bremen. I still remember an appauling answer to the question how he's chosen the club "They told me the city is exactly like KC".

 

AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO JOB!

No, but seriously, good call out. I hope it isn't an issue for Gill. But it may end up career defining for him. Whether that's in a good or bad way we may never know, but I hope Barca is taking into account more than just their immediate needs.

 

Ledezma was certainly on a better path than others and definitely isn't in the same bucket.

But that said, even when he got hurt, he was getting backup minutes and spot time for just a brief period before injury with PSV. He only had about 120 first team minutes. He came back about six months ago and has gotten 38 minutes since then.

Aaronson had been starting for Philly Union for close to two years at that same time, and then he went to RB Salzburg at exactly that time was a full time starter in about six games. Aaronson had 3,600 first team minutes in two years in Philly. That's more minutes that Ledezma has played in his entire pro career -- and most of that was in essentially a youth team.

This isn't to knock Ledezma at all. Did the injury set him back? Of course. Would he have been a locked in starter for PSV without it? Tough to say.

But I expect that if Ledezma had signed with RSL, he's starting in MLS as much as Aaronson. And could have gotten a move like Aaronson.

This isn't even to say MLS is the right path for everyone. My point here is not about Europe versus MLS, it's really about playing time, about the team focus and investment, about being able to competently play a key role but still be challenged.

 

Who has said anything different?

The conversation here was literally around individual fit with the club and how motivation is personal. You're knocking down a pretty tenuous straw man.

That said, please give me an example of this? This seems to be people's number one worry -- a player who needs the motivation of Europe. Who's dominating at their club but won't move?

I find most people are self-motivated. They have it or not. And I suspect that if there's any player that is like that, they are not likely to succeed in a better league because that motivation/discipline isn't there.

It's such a weird worry to me. Not that people aren't motivated -- but that the only motivation is stronger competition. I think it is far more the other way around -- a motivated person wants to challenge themselves so they move.

This just seems to be the literal ONLY thing so much of the fanbase focuses development on despite MILES of evidence that other things matter. Which was the point of my original post.

Yes, the odds suck. And we never know how much was situation and how much was player.

I don't think this is true at all, namely because Europe is a big place. There's a lot of mediocre play and chaff in "Europe." This is the kind of snobbishness I think is ridiculous. The continent is not magic.

And the idea that 16-18 year olds have any idea what a viable pathway to first team minutes is is kind of a joke. We've built a culture that "europe" is the end all, be all, and so a bunch of kids chase that status and are never heard from again.

It's a very personal decision, and the situation matters, but Europe is not magic and most of these teams have no vested interest in the free transfers they pick up. They are disposable commodities. You better be real good, and you better be real good fast. Or spend a decent number of years in purgatory.

Europe isn't magic. Playing time is magic. Go where you can really get it.

 

At the end of the day players should go to the highest level where they can get regular first team minutes. Whether that's in Europe or MLS will depend on the player and the question of when to go over is more of an art than a science, but it is extremely difficult for a young player to get regular minutes at a top 5 European team compared to MLS.

 

Well, I would add "in a good team situation." So, a situation where the team is competent enough to play decent soccer -- there's no education in bunkering, really. And a situation where the coach isn't an active saboteur.

For example, Josh Sargent got nearly 1600 EPL minutes last year. Very regular minutes. I doubt anyone, even Josh Sargent, would claim that was a terribly helpful year for his development. (At best maybe it was a one-step-backward-for-two-steps-forward situation.)

 

Invites for the next camp have gone out in the last days. Expected to be a wider camp (approximately 24-30 players) with many new faces.

 

I heard once that for player development it's good to be one of the best players on a team for a year or two to learn leadership and the responsibility to carry a team but then it's important to move on to a team where you're one of the worst so that you get challenged to improve.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is some players could improve just by switching MLS teams at a young age. Carleton was playing for his home town team and a change of location to a team in Europe or another team in MLS would have knocked some of his complacency away and placed him away from his school chums. Having to make an impression for a new team and coach no matter where is a challenge a lot of these kids need.

 

I think that also depends on the position. It's not great for attacking players to be playing for bottom of the table teams, even if they are getting minutes. It matters less for other positions.

 

He's not on the roster I've seen.

And he isn't either.

The rosters for both 06 & 07 camps have been released to those invited.

 

Maybe Portugal being dominated by our U17s, has something to do with it.

 

Only 5 returning players from previous camps on this roster, rest are new faces I guess to expand the pool. I would assume the returning 5 are those the staff feel can be replaced