The 2016s 2021 cycle

This is so confusing. I don't follow this closely enough for the birth year/U-xx stuff to make sense. Are the 2005s U-15s, or U16s and is Segares in charge of them both? The other item throwing me is there are no Chicago Fire Academy goalkeepers on this roster.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...gares-calls-36-players-to-first-training-camp

 

I made the 2025 u20 cycle for this but this thread also works too. The more information sharing the better

 

It goes like this:
U14: 2007
U15: 2006
U16: 2005
U17: 2004
U18: 2003
U20: 2002/2001 (no more u19 cycle I think)

this is how it will be until November when the next cycles start and each birth year moves up 2 age groups.

the u23’s are every 4 years and are 1997’s and younger. The 2024 olympics will be 01’s and younger. The 2028 Olympics will be 05’s and so on.

 

The federation is an absolute joke. Absolutely zero attempt to scout outside of MLS Academies. To think that the very best 05s only exist at MLS Academies is the height of arrogance.

 

Agreed. They’re not even attempting to pretend there isn’t a huge mls bias, or even worse, using not playing for the mls as punishment.

 

At this point and at this age group, the call-ups range quite a bit from call-up to call-up.

There's four non-MLS call-ups here, and I'm sure there will be more as more camps come in.

It's not a shock that most of a team of 14 year olds is going to be sourced from MLS Academies at this point. It's not even a national team level where it makes sense to invest heavily in a wide net of scouting -- the best players at 14 are oh-so-rarely the best players even five years later. This isn't punitive; it's resource allocation.

Feel free to throw out names of deserving players -- we all like learning about good prospects.

 

Why not just name the thread by birth year? It seems confusing to name the thread based on a youth tournament that isn’t even this cycle.

 

I know you’re joking here, but I saw this team play recently. They are lucky to place any players on this roster IMO. Not a talented age group for Chicago.

 

It’s also missing a lot of the best MLS academy players. The Union players haven’t made it onto either of these rosters so far. The only Atlanta kid whose made it onto these rosters is a kid whose a giant and much bigger than anyone in this age group. Better prospects haven’t yet made these rosters.

As I’ve been saying for over a year now, these YNT rosters have been terribly picked since the YNT coaching shortage. I don’t think it’s a coincidence either.

 

3 of the 4 non mls kids are based abroad though correct? So of the US based kids 1 is non mls? I agree it doesn’t really matter given what the group will look like 5 years from now. But then what’s even the point? Why spend the money to bring in 240 kids to regional camps to narrow the pool down to a dozen mls academies? Is it just so mls club’s can scout the events and bring those kids into their academies? Because otherwise it makes no sense to be flying 240 kids to camps and then 9 months later not even pretend to look outside of MLS. And I would love to know what Union has done to earn no 05 call-ups, and can’t get Quinn Sullivan whose pretty widely accepted here as one of the top 04s into a camp. And what fc Dallas has done to receive the opposite treatment. I get they’re a good team. They don’t have 7 of the best 05s in the country in their academy though.

 

I think it's an incorrect assumption to say that every camp at this level is the staff's exact top set of players.

But are we really shocked most of the players are from MLS academies? The talent does tend to flow that direction. And the US doesn't have a ton of scouts, etc. So it's not surprising that there aren't a lot of them in the camp -- the way USSF is staffed, there's not going to be a massive wide net at this age. They know they have time for players to emerge and get visibility. I don't think there's the resources or any real intent to make the U16 teams definitive, if that makes sense. If I were in charge, it'd be one of my lower priorities.

I'm still curious who you think should be there from non-MLS academies that isn't. I'm always interested in hearing about new players. I'm sure there's players out there who deserve a look.

 

The entire US development landscape has changed over the last decade and our fans are still using the same negative tropes of yesteryear. Complaints like this as a generalization without specific players mean nothing. Tell us who should be called in or its just a theory based in history. When MLS started they were not better than other historically good DAs. Arsenal, Schultz, Bethesda, PDA, Texans, Solar Chelsea all were as good. Over the last decade or so major changes have heavily shifted the balance of power to all MLS academies with many of the old guard shifting, consolidating, folding or shifting emphasis down the food chain. First MLS went free development, has path to first team football, Homegrown offered salaries non-MLS can't offer, they invested millions in infrastructure, (have you seen what some MLS kids get to train in?!!!) they hired many of the good coaches away from the old powers, they consolidated with regional affiliates, they recruited players from all other non-MLS DA's, they offer constant tryouts, schools, residencies, billeting allowing players from AZ to play in Utah, Players from Florida to play in Philadelphia, players from hours drive away to live close to the teams training and educational offerings. Everyone in our country knows this with players as young as 13,14,15 all trying to compete to get into MLS academies. Chisolm is from Yorktown, VA, Lindquist played for Bethesda. If you look at all these players and teams they have players from all over the place, out of state, far drives, other non-MLS previous teams. That's a good healthy sign that our net is widening not restricting. Would it be easier on your eyes if Linquist stayed at Bethesda for inferior competition, coaching, infrastructure so it lists a non-MLS team by his name. Should Chisolm have played for some 'Yorktown SC', so his name doesn't have DC United next to it so you can think we are pulling from wider range when we really already are. MLS teams are extending the net and for some reason because a camp has MLS teams listed but you don't really know where they are from or what team they played for previously. I could show you hundreds of MLS players who would have previously stayed at non-MLS teams but who are now self recruiting up the pyramid, as the way it should be.
Of course there probably a few 16 yr olds playing for non-MLS teams who could be in a national team camp but what will happen is the MLS teams will find them first because they scout their regions really well looking for good players then he'll be called into camp and not the other way around. Free your mind to the new way development is happening in our country, its' not 2000 any longer.

 

I don't know where to post this, since we have this thread, a DA thread and @ussoccer97531 ranking thread.

One player that I really noticed at GA Cup in Houston was Bryan Moyado with LAFC. This is a player that hasn't received much attention, but I think he is a really good player. I wouldn't put him at the top of this age group, but I think he has the potential to be a part of the discussion to be in this 2005 YNT set up. It was good to see him get called into this camp.

He reminds me a lot of Danny Leyva. He's on the think side, but covers a lot of ground and is better defensively than Leyva. I didn't see the creativity that Leyva has, but this is a name that people should continue to track.

 

Ussoccer doesn't scout as well as they should but the MLS academies have really stepped up in the last 5 years in doing the job for them and they get the best players in those academies to then be scouted by Ussoccer.

If there is a standout player that isn't in the DA there is a good chance that one of the DA clubs is looking at him and then the MLS academies do a good job of identifying and poaching the standout non MLS DA players. The scouts know which non MLS DA's do a good job of producing ynt level talent and still watch them but lately the MLS DA's have really stepped up their game and it's shown in the ynt call ups.

 

This is one of the benefits of a growing professional pyramid. US Soccer does not have the resources to effectively directly scout the whole country, and I would argue scouting for a U15 or U16 squad is very low on US Soccer's priority list.

As MLS continues to expand in both teams, academy investment and eventually scouting (once homegrown territories go, and eventually they will), and as USL begins to build an academy network at at least the Championship level, we will have roughly ~40-50 professional organizations that will essentially act as scouting arms of US Soccer.

That's many more people and hours than US Soccer will ever invest at this level -- or should invest. The remainder of the network will continue to be the part time tip element they have now.

Kids will still get missed, especially if they don't want to go to a pro academy. Coaches will still pick people you think are wrong.

But professional leagues are a multiplier in terms of resourcing for both scouting and development at a level a Federation can never do in a nation the size of the US.

 

There are also a couple of other factors in play that give MLS DA players a leg up on non MLS academies. First, style of play for MLS academies are very similar. Pretty much all teams focus on “developmental soccer” meaning they will play out of the back, even if it’s dangerous and leads to soft goals. Players who can pass well while under pressure are the ones that have the capacity to play at higher levels. MLS academy teams also look to maintain possession and build through the midfield. They can often be beaten by non MLS teams that play direct, but the MLS academies are more interested in preparing pro players than getting youth results. Since GGG is going to play that build up possession style, it makes sense to call in the youth players that practice and play that way.

I’d also point out that the new DA Cup has 7 MLS academies and only one non MLS team into the quarterfinals. The best players are consolidating in the MLS academy teams.

 

Ultimately...................just like in every other major soccer playing country................the clubs do the talent identification and scouting. Is a player from the equivalent of Waco United in the French U17 team? No. Of course not. They're all overwhelmingly at major French and European clubs.

As the years go by, the influence of the professional clubs on American youth rosters will only increase.

As we know, the US is a massive country. You can only scout a fraction. So you scout the major tournaments and events. You scout the development academy. So yes, if you play for one of the clubs that plays in those events on a regular basis.....................then you have the best chance of being scouted. Where do people think the scouts are in Texas. D'uh. They're not in Waco or Nacogdoches or Tyler. There are 11 players on this roster from Texas, and they're all either from Dallas or Houston-based academies.

 

A good chunk of MLS academies are actively recruiting now. If you're from a smaller population area and are a true standout player there is a good chance that an academy is aware of who you are and evaluating you already.

Like it or not, Ussoccer is letting their pro clubs do the scouting work and then choosing kids from there which is how every other country on the planet does it.

 

I'd like to believe this innocent explanation, but I think it looks a lot more likely that this selection practice is USSoccer consciously leaving non-MLS kids out in order to push towards an MLS-led future. This is USSoccer trying to convince the best kids who are not at an MLS academy, that they should move to an MLS academy.

At 17, sure I'd believethat most all of the top kids are at an MLS academy-- though evidence clearly contradicts that -- but these are 14 year olds we're talking about here. What % of kids in the US has an MLS academy within commuting distance? 50%?

And there's plenty of evidence (clearer in the older ages, but I'm sure it's happening in the younger age groups) that there are top kids who are actively avoiding the MLS academies. Probably partly because they want to keep their future options more open, and partly because the MLS has a TERRIBLE track record of developing players.

USSoccer clearly wants a world where the MLS academies are the only destination for kids. And that's probably in everyone's long term interest -- anything we can do to get away from pay-for-play is a good thing. But I think what they're doing now is punishing and discouraging to some very good players, and punishing themselves and their own teams, for very little gain in moving towards that direction.

This is obviously totally speculative, but I think it makes a lot more sense than the innocent "they're just being lazy with their scouting" explanation. They had ~140 kids from this age between the 3 camps last year. 36 out of 37 top US-based kids being MLS-based is statistically impossible at this age. No one is that bad at their job.

 

Eh.
The USSF scouts are scouting kids in the USSF development academy and calling them up to USSF youth teams. Is this some sort of revelation?

I would also add that in these younger age groups I never assume that the players that are called up are deemed the "best players in the country." Often, its the best players that are available for selection and willing to travel across the country to California in a given time period. Kids in this age group often have other commitments. You know the kids that probably don't? The kids at MLS academies like FCD are most likely to be committed full-time.

To be honest, this is a discussion that we've had on these boards for 20 years. Its like clockwork. If a roster is released and its heavily influenced by any sort of group (geographic, ethnic, club affiliation, etc.) people claimed some sort of bias.

 

Is there any real evidence to say that a kid in a non MLS academy would be too busy to accept a national team call up? That is a massive reach.

In the last few years scouting and coaching have been stepped up and ussoccer is trying to tell talented kids to move to clubs that will provide the best coaching and opportunities to become a pro at a young age. What is the problem with that? It's not like they solely look at those academies. Standout players in the DA at non MLS academies are still getting looks. If not then players like Evan Rotundo, Rafael Jaregui, Leo Torres, Bailey Sparks, Jonathan Tomkinson, Dantouma Toure, josh penn, cade hagan, allan rodriguez, and axel alejandre wouldn't have gotten call ups when they were in non-MLS academies.

 

I think this is much closer to the truth. There are top players at non MLS academies that they are very aware of and whether this is “encouragement” for the kids to move to mls or direct punishment for not, there are kids that would clearly get looks if they were at mls academies. These aren’t kids that are at watermelon fc. They’re at clubs that are considered competition for mls clubs for a variety of reasons, kids that have euro options and don’t want to be tied to mls. I’m not getting into names because it’s not my place, but while I’m sure there are examples of kids being missed because they are at small clubs or from unscouted areas, there are also kids that they are actively ignoring for non performance related reasons.