Taking a leaf from the Magners League?

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Nerroth, May 25, 2011.

  1. Nerroth

    Nerroth Member

    Feb 9, 2008
    Ontario, Canada
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Hi.


    With Leinster securing the Heineken Cup recently, and the upcoming final against Munster to look forward to, I started thinking again about what it is that allows Irish rugby to sustain a competitive level, but not Irish soccer.

    In my mind, the onset of the Magners League (and more importantly, the way in which Irish clubs are positioned within it) has provided a key piece of the puzzle.

    The All-Ireland League, and the teams which play in it, have a lot of history and tradition, but it was not an ideal platform from which to launch teams directly into European competition. Even if the IRFU made a conscious decision to try and beef up one or two teams into competitors, the league as a whole might suffer, not least when you run into the question of exactly who deserves to be given such preferential treatment.

    Instead, the basic framework which the provincial clubs (and identities) were just large enough to field at least broadly competitive franchises, and just few enough not to spread the union's resources too thinly. Even so, that still would not have been enough to run a 4-team pocket league and expect it to become a fertile ground for European success.

    Fortunately, the Welsh and Scottish unions, which had similar structural limitations, were open to the idea of establishing a joint Celtic League; which allowed the three to sustain franchises capable of standing against the larger clubs from England and France.

    In this, rugby union had a few advantages; there were no real sectarian concerns to worry about, they had off-the-shelf provincial identities they could plug into a new system, qualification to the Heineken Cup is relatively seamless for many Magners League teams, and not too many people bat eyelids at new countries (such as Italy) joining the fray.


    In my mind, the four "Celtic" associations really ought to consider the Magners League model, and see if a shared mid-level league couldn't be implemented.

    In the Irish case, I for one would side-step the current league structures in the ROI and NI, and establish four provincial franchises; Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster. Rather than try to split pre-existing fan bases by attempting to retro-fit pre-existing teams, it would in my view be better to side-step that problem entirely, by offering the same provincial loyalties that fans of Irish sport have enjoyed for over a century.

    Unless any of the Welsh teams in the English league structure were willing to switch to a "Cletic League", you'd probably have to build new franchises there, too; in Scotland, the Old Firm would be big enough to go in directly, though I wonder what case you could make for many of the others.

    One thing about this idea might be an issue, though; for it to be financially viable, it may well have to be isolated from pre-existing domestic leagues entirely. In other words, no pro/rel (like in MLS or the Australian A-League... or in the Magners League itself). In principle, you could still allow the teams based in each jurisdiction to compete in local cup competitions (the way MLS teams in the USA and Canada can run into lower-level teams from the same country in the U.S. Open Cup and Canadian Championship respectively); but in practice, the clubs in each league would go their separate ways.

    Whether or not UEFA would approve any of this is another matter, but in other confederations (not least in CONCACAF) there are many examples of shared leagues and tailored franchises which arguably echo the Magners League model already.


    The key aspect of this setup would be how the new franchises could then develop and grow into successful clubs in their own right. Even if a Leinster (or Munster or...) side would still not become a world-beater, it could have a far better chance of being good enough to give Irish club soccer the kind of voice it's sorely lacked on the European stage; the kind which Leinster (and Munster and...) Rugby fans take for granted in their sport.


    In my mind, only that kind of team, in a shared league, could reach the critical mass needed to move things in the right direction.


    Do you think an ROI-NI-Scotland-Wales shared league could work? Would the various associations involved (and the heavy hand of UEFA itself) be willing and able to make the efforts needed to get the ball rolling? And if they did, would you as a fan be willing to cheer for a provincial team alongside your pre-existing allegiances?
     
  2. Bucky-O'Hare

    Bucky-O'Hare Member

    Feb 14, 2007
    Ireland
    Club:
    Derry City
    I think a shared league among the four associations could work but not in the same way that the Magners League does. It would have to be existing clubs and not new franchises.

    From Scotland you would have Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee United and Hearts.

    From Wales there would be Cardiff, Swansea and a North Wales representative.

    In Ireland there is no way a provincial system would work as there is no tradition of it. Also Ulster is actually bigger than Northern Ireland and if this teams stadium was built in Belfast people from the rest of the province wouldn't support it.

    It could work in Munster and Connacht.

    In Leinster it would be a bit of a waste to only have one team. I would have two teams from Dublin alone and they would be Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians.

    My own opinion would lean more towards an All-Ireland league organised by a private body away from both the FAI and IFA. It wouldn't be perfect but it would be interesting.
     
  3. Joey Vimsante The Poet

    Aberdeen FC
    Scotland
    Nov 4, 2023
    I think a Celtic Nations Club Cup would be a good idea on top of domestic and European football. With all Scottish Premier sides. Plus selected sides from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, and the Isle of Man. There could even be teams from England from near the Scottish and Welsh borders as guests. It could be a group stage trophy. Leading to a final.
     

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