Discussion in 'Movies, TV and Music' started by Ringo, Aug 23, 2006.
Welp, I'm never watching this show again. An asian lawyer with a confidence problem? My ass.
The only good thing about having a final 3 instead of a final 2 is there was a better chance of having the 2 best players there, which they were. I thought Ozzy should've mentioned that the main reason Yul was in such a position of power was that he had the immunity idol, while Ozzy kept having to earn his spot. I thought Ozzy "bragging" about his big strategic move of throwing the challenge to get rid of Billy probably hurt him because the idea of throwing challenges is pretty distasteful to most players. But I thought Yul bragging about how well he can manipulate people would hurt him, but I guess not.
The firemaking tiebreaker was simply embarrassing.
I feel sorry for Ozzie, he deserved it more I believe, he understood the nature of Survivor better than anyone before him.
Embarrassing, sure, but my wife, kids, and I howled with laughter. Some of the best unintentional comedy I've seen in a long time.
The final three would've been more fun if all three people were worthy candidates (meaning who would earn votes from others). Although the vote coming down to the ninth and final one was fun, too.
The one question I wanted Jeff to ask was why they Adam-Candace-Parvati crew were so sure that Yul didn't have the idol when Jonathan tried to push the issue when there were nine players left in the game. Jonathan wasn't sure to flip until it was clear that his team mates were morons.
Adam had the right plan when he was getting voted out, force Yul to use the idol thereby putting the final four all on an even plane. However at that point they didn't know it was going to stop at 3 so they probably all figured to get to the last round Yul had to play it even up.
I think Ozzie should have won. However he did things that he couldn't really brag about, but made huge changes. He was VERY good at just tossing out a simple idea or answer, then staying quiet while others pushed it forward or took the heat for it. For example, when the 4 + Jonathan ate the food without sharing, It was Ozzie who actually answered the question of "should we share the food with them?" Nobody would be the bad guy and answer, Ozzie did, then shut up while the others ran with it, then took the heat for it. It was also Ozzie who said "hide the coconuts". He pulled strings, just hid.
Yul played the idol perfectly however. By letting it out that he had it it did change the game.
I was suprised Becky didn't take the idol at the final 4 vote. Though she probably figured she would have a tough enough time against Yul/Ozzie and that would just toss any small chance she had.
the fire-making challenge was funny as hell. i haven't laughed like that at a TV show in a looooong time. how embarassing.
I did feel sorry for them, and then for Becky in the final three because people either ignored her or dumped on her. it must've been rough. and she was a nice girl, so it's too bad.
happy to see yul win it. i thought going into the TC his honesty would kill him, but i think it benefited him in the end.
next season looks very interesting, though. one tribe living in luxury, one in squalor. and what's this thing that probst said 'the most controversial move a survivor has made that will have america talking?' i wonder if somebody hauls off and pops probst in the beak? I love Jeff, but I wonder what's up. Even though there's a very good chance of it, they better not be blowing smoke up our collective asses with that one.
the thing with that is, I thought having the idol publicly would be his downfall in a way (or at least make the idol less powerful but removing doubt). I mean, it's called the HIDDEN immunity idol. but by playing it like that I wonder if Yul let the cat out of the bag and every other player will now try something similar. of course, I thought I read that the new season is filming now (there was a story about the coup in Fiji while Surivvor was there) so they might not have had a chance to see Yul at work.
he used the idol much better than Terry did last year.
I think they got to that in a roundabout way. when Jeff was asking Yul how he pulled Jonathan back, he said that he told jonathan that they all thought he had the immunity idol. so that could be why they didn't suspect Yul. maybe they really did think Jonathan had it, which might go a long way towards explaining why the voted out three other people before him.
One thing about exposing you have the idol is that it casts doubt on who is actually holding it at TC. It makes the "other" alliance over think things or at least they can't get to vocal. There were a couple of times where I thought Yul might have shared it with someone else, but didn't.
Fun Survivor, Yul And Ozzie were the most deserving of winning. I think because of how Yul played strategically that he was most deserving. I would love to see Yul and Ozzie in another Survivor All Stars.
SM - can you explain this statement? I actually thought it was very interesting to contrast Yul and Ozzie - they each played the game extremely well, just differently. Ozzie was the best "challenge" player I've seen (I haven't watched every season, but most of them), but Yul was far better at strategizing and making things happen. If not for Yul, Jonathan would not have flipped and the Aitu 4 would have been voted off. So neither Yul or Ozzie would have made the final. I can't see Ozzie knowing how to influence Jonathan to flip, or do some of the other things Yul did.
I think they were equally good, just at different aspects of the game. I had no idea who would win, which also made it very interesting. Maybe that's why they went to a "final 3" as someone noted - to get two very strong players into the final vote to make it closer.
The one thing that seemed different about the immunity challenges this year - most of them seemed to be very similar. A physical activity, and something involving a puzzle. I didn't watch every show this year - did they not do the "how well do you know the other players" quiz that they usually do? It seemed they almost tailored the challenges (particularly the individual ones) to be ones that Ozzie would kick butt in.
There were a lot fewer challenges involving strength than usual-- which seemed curious since these were the best fed survivors ever I think...
Also consider that without Ozzie "winning" challenges for them pre-merge they might not have been in a position for Yul to flip Johnathan... I think they both deserved it..
John the fireman and Colby were both challenge demons too-- but Ozzie got huge mileage out of his swimming skills...
This might have been the cleanest Survivor ever-- I had no serious argument with any of the final six. There have been seasons won by people who played very similar games to Becky and with less skill-- you can only play the game you are presented with. In a game with Yul-with-the-idol, Ozzie and Johnathan you aren't going to be high profile playing a leverage game. She's probably the best third place finisher ever? I feel sure she'd have won Thailand and might have won Amazon too... and maybe Pirate Island...
oh, god. a million times no.
here's some third-place finishers who are better
1. Rob Cesternino, The Amazon, who Probst himself called the best player never to win the game. King of strategy.
2. Terry, Panama. It's between he and Ozzy as to who was he best ever at challenges. His name was down to be voted off since the merge and he made it to the final three and will alone.
3. Lex, Africa. he controlled the game, made all the decisions, was good in challenges. he lost the challenge and Ethan snuck around to win the game. But Lex was the best player in that season.
4. Kathy, Marquesas. Maybe one of the best female players ever. She was smarter than most people who ever played. She got jobbed off the last challenge when Vecepia betrayed her. Both her and Neleh admitted they couldn't beat her. She got screwed out of $1 million.
5. Jonny Fairplay, Pearl Islands. The Pirate game. He made the single greatest move in Survivor history by telling people his grandmother was dead. That was preplanned. A scrawny little rat who nobody liked ... AND he made it all the way to the final three and should've been in the final two over the boy scout leader Lillian. Love him or hate him, he was a player.
6. Rafe, Guatamala. Did surprising well. Won a challenge, I believe. Got in a good alliance. Unlike Becky, was seen as a player with a degree of power. Which makes it harder to play the game.
7. Ian, Palau. At least he did something in a challenge. He played Becky's role of second-in-command but was 1,000 times better in challenges.
8. Rudy, Borneo. Just because.
Those are just the players who I think are clearly better than her. I mean, she was useless in challenges. She couldn't make a fire on day 39 (which right there knocks her to the bottom of the pecking order, in my opinion). I think she's easily one of the WORST third-place finishers.
This post is nothing personal. I just had some time on my hands.
also, there's no way she wins Thailand. Brian Hidnick had that game in his backpocket all the way. That was probably the most dominating performance ever. I mean, he was in charge, everybody knew it and nobody could do anything about it. He was a king sitting on his throne.
Amazon, doubtful. But Jenna Morasca DID win and he was a terrible, coat-riding player. But she was better in challenges. Maybe.
Pearl islands. Sandra and Lil WERE a terrible final two, so if those two could've made it she could've.
I give you two out of three she could've won. but no chance in Thailand.
also, and honestly, if there was an all-stars would you want her in it? I mean, she had no personality, no survivor skills and her only contribution was huddling with Yul. Look at it this way, Yul could've played his game and won without her here. What was she without Yul?
No worries; I don't see it as personal.
One of the things that makes the game fascinating are the different ways to play it-- another is the different ways to interpret it. I would bet on Becky to finish better than any of those players in any large sample... its isn't necessary to win challenges to win the game, and under the radar is a perfectly valid approach. But of course unlike baseball we don't get a large sample, so its hard to be sure...
Being unable to make fire even with matches is pretty weak-- in fact it seemed apparent that neither of them had even watched it done with flint and steel. They kept catching sparks and ignoring them as though they thought flame was going to shoot off the flint with just the right strike...
But we wouldn't judge the overall abilities of a soccer player by skill at penalty kicks...
I did forget Terry in the list of challenge demons...
Brian "controlled" an exceptionally weak and ill-motivated field. IMO a good passive player could have manipulated them in their own interests right out from under him... without ever needing to get above the horizon..
But you see I thought Sandra was a truly valid winner who understood the game and played it with a kind of instinctual zen genius. I didn't think she was weak at all. It is just as hard to play "anybody but me" for fifteen or twenty straight councils as it is to win immunity fifteen or twenty straight times, and deserves just as much repect. And the "fooled you twice" game ten or fifteen times is just about impossible-- a Fairplay, a Jonathan, even a Cesternino is going to have great difficulty getting votes from the jury. I though Probst overrated Cesternino; he set himself up to carry Matthew at his own expense, and Matthew played him perfectly.
Well, from what I know about both their background, Ozzie had the tougher life I would imagine and if either life had to culminate in this competition, I'd rather have Ozzie win it. Also, his re-union speech about getting back to nature and going back to humanity's roots kind of spoke to me. That's what I think Survivor is ultimately more about and if these two were really stranded on a remote island and would have to fetch for themselves I really do believe Ozzie would fare better.
Again, Yul played the game extremely well though, and this is a competition between other cast mates and strategy is very much a part of the game - Yul took advantage of it. They are two of my all time favorite finalists and for the first time in Survivor I can say I'm not too pissed that my choice hasn't won it.
everybody in that game was passive. it was the worst cast ever.