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Discussion in 'Rochester Rhinos' started by nh_ny, Jul 13, 2004.
Fixed your post.
I make these statements expecting that Rochester would be in the top half of MLS attendance (at least how the league is currently set up plus the two new teams next season). That is not necessarily a compliment to Rochester as it is an indictment of the fans of San Jose, KC, and Denver etc. I still believe overall attendance would only increase slightly by going to MLS because:
1. I have witnessed the grass roots soccer groups of WNY. Very well run youth clubs, HS teams and several Division III programs that could be fringe D-I programs. There are strong soccer roots. Its just there is not a huge population in WNY. The outer "cities" we speak of, Utica, Jamestown, Corning, Elmira, Syracuse - you can't line up the moving vans quick enough in these towns. Upstate NY is not growning, it is shrinking. I imagine it is taking some of the potential soccer fans out of the area.
2. I would like to see the Rhinos have a down year just to see what it does to attendance. People talk about the Bills fans being the best in the NFL. Bulls##t. I was in school in WNY in the late '80's when the Bills were playing to half capacity (that is when they came up with the pathetic "The Bills Make Me Want To Shout" ad campaign. To this day I dread when they score). Even when they were down a few years ago, the fans stayed away in pretty good numbers. When the Sabres are good, attendance is pretty good. How about lately? Even the Amerks have seen a decline in attendance with some below average (by their standards-try comaring this to the River Rats here!) seasons. It's a lot easier making a day of it when the team is good, and year-in, year-out the Rhinos have done that. I would imagine in the salary-capped, all-for-one MLS they will have to incur their share of down years.
3. WNY has had a lot of new facilities in the last 15 years to give a bump to their attendance #'s. Besides the Rhinos, every stadium is either new or refurbished in Buffalo or Rochester. That helps attendance in the short run. Ask the Orioles, Indians or even the Crew, there are now plenty of tickets available at Camden Yards, Jacobs Field & Crew Stadium.
4. To the Salty Dog poster; Yes your field is pathetic. I saw it on FSW a few weeks ago. You forgot the astroturf. That was an NASL flashback to a Cosmos game against the Toronto Blizzard from Exhibition Stadium circa 1979. Although my 6-year old son would kill for the Salty Dog shirt advertising the Bioncle II movie.
Anyway, I hope for a day when I can be in Rochester for an MLS Rhinos/Metrostar match or better yet, a USMNT World Cup qualifying match in March against a Costa Rica or other central american country.
Onondaga County (which is the county Syracuse is in) is growing faster than Monroe County (Rochester's county) since the 2000 census. The problem is that it's just gaining back people it lost in the 90's.
Personally im a Metros fan but it would be nice to have a team closer then a 4 hr drive. I would b willing to drive 2hrs 2 go see an MLS game. Its 2 bad Syracuse cant cut it.
I said it before and I'll say it again, put an MLS team in Rochester and you will[/] get people from the Southern Tier. I know a few people in Binghamton that would go watch MLS.
I watch about 6 soccer games from Europe per week in season, play indoor and outdoor, coach outdoor, travel to USA National team (men's and women's both) games, and watch MLS on TV when I'm not too busy. I am ate up with soccer. I do not follow football, basketball (except the ACC, Go Deacs!), baseball, lacrosse, darts or any other pro sport besides soccer. I have attended Revs, DC, and Metrostars games, depending on my fluxuating home and travel schedule over the last few years.
But... no MLS team has grabbed me and held my attention. Mostly because they are "made up" teams that have no history. Make the Rhino's a MLS team and I am an instant fan. I'll likely travel to Rochester (from Atlantic Canada) at least once a year. I'll subscribe to websites and watch them on TV. I'll wear thier kit.
That's what bringing the Rhinos into MLS does for you, Mr Garber. But you sell a Rochester franchise to someone else, and you can kiss my money goodbye. Expand into anywhere with a new franchise and I yawn. Again.
WTF? Rochester makes sense. So what if it isn't glamourous.
Well said, DH. Thank you.
Yes, very well said indeed.
A few points I'd like to make:
1-I live in Rochester and love soccer. I really don't go nor support the Rhinos. I would go to more Rhinos games but watching a soccer match in a small, narrow, baseball stadium, with infield base cutouts takes away from what the beautiful game is all about.
2-The level of the A-league on that terrible baseball stadium is just below what I'd like to see in terms of quality play.
3-An MLS team in a new soccer stadium where I can see great young players and good veterans is what I will go see. Win or Lose
4-Rochester should also pursue Toronto fans via our new fast ferry. 5 million ethnically diverse soccer loving fans a 2 hour ferry ride across Lake Ontario is about the same time Utica fans can drive. Rochester owners should fight against Toronto getting their own team.
Will you go to Rochester matches next year in their new stadium? I take it your problem is with Frontier Field rather than the A-League as such. I can tell you, as a season-ticket Metro fan, I watch the Fri. night A-League matches on FSW, and if I lived near Rochester my order for the season would already be in.
Go see them in their new grounds next year; the difference between the best A-League teams and MLS is actually slight. In fact we've all seen how well low-ranked Charleston has done in the Open Cup.
If you really do love soccer, get past your distaste for baseball parks, and see the Rhinos now, before Cinderella goes to the Ball at the new stadium. Support your local team; true love is unconditional.
Nine out of the current 10 MLS teams that allegedly "have no history" played their first games on the weekend of April 13-14, 1996.
The Rochester Raging Rhinos played their first game some time in May 1996.
If someone made up the history of the Chicago Fire it's news to me.
Hello Rhino fans. Need some answers if you please. Rochester is obvioulsy a soccer town and I think the Rhinos would make a great addition to MLS, but...
A lot of people outside of Rochester say your owner is the issue. He makes money right now, and doesn't have pockets as deep as the current investors to absorb a lose. Why lose money when you are making money? Why pay 10 million to enter a league to lose money initially?
He also controls his players contracts while MLS would wind up controlling them. Less freedom for him. Current MLS rules can be confusing, restricting and unfortunately can seem made up as they go along. Why lose that power?
Was the stadium deal contingent on becoming an MLS team? If not he will make even more money. Yes? No? Why jump?
Now he makes money and is a big fish why possibly become an average or small fish.
I have followed the Rhinos and their story since the team started playing. While the fans have been great, it seems to politicians have been very slow to embrace or accept them. Seems like everytime I read an article one politician or another was setting up roadblocks. What's the deal?
Also, this field is going to be turf...no? Football, lacrosse, soccer lines all at once? Not really a pure SSS then. Yes, no?
Would love to hear from the informed hardcore fan. Please fill me in. I'm afraid that if the Rhinos miss the next round of expansion it might not happen at all.
Again, I want the Rhinos in MLS. Nice NY rivalry with my Stars and a great soccer town, stadium and fans.
Love to hear from all of you. Thanks, appreciate it.
Liam and Jefe on the same side of an argument! What is the world coming too!
I'm fine with Rochester entering the League, and hopefully it will be the same team that's done so well over the years. But to say they have more "history" than MLS teams at this point is pretty silly. And look, everyone has to start somewhere, even if we are 136 years younger than Notts County...
Frank and the rest of the ownership group have talked about striving to get the franchise to the highest level possible.
And that means MLS.
While that may not be a sound business decision to others outside of the organization, Frank and company have done a lot of research and if they feel it will work for them, I'm not going to question it.
The stadium was not contingent on MLS. But, the possible move to MLS was part of the pitch to get the state money for the project.
The political footdragging (and it's not all of the politicians. But, the senior state legislator from Rochester, David Gantt, has been a roadblock) is to be expected in Monroe County. The "leadership" here isn't all that forward thinking.
As far as the whole FieldTurf debate goes, PTP was always pitched as a multi-purpose stadium. The business model didn't make sense if the plan was only to house a soccer team.
The Rhinos will be the primary tenant. But, they will not be the only tenant. Heck, the Rhinos owners are the ones that also own the outdoor lacrosse Rattlers and they've talked about bringing a WUSA(???) team to PTP as well. With that much traffic, along with the concerts, Bills scrimmages, HS sports, and such that they plan to host, the feeling is that grass wouldn't survive that much traffic.
As far as lines go, the talk is that soccer lines would be the only permanent lines on the field.
Thanks. Appreciate it.
Have to think if Club America buys into MLS, and takes one of the teams off of AEG's hand, along with making the investor pool larger, which will lesson the risk, things may really start to look attractive (and doable) from a financial point of view for the Rhinos (and all investors that size).
If a couple of more stadiums are approved and built, along with two more new investors for the next round of expansion, the league "should"
start to take off. Hope it happens and that you guys are in the league by no later than 2008, 9.