Regarding France, I wonder which is the better team, the 80s generation or the 90s: Bats Amoros-Battiston-Tressor-Bossis Fernandes-Tigana-Giresse-Platini-Ghengini Rocheteua vs Barthez Thuram-Desailly-Blanc-Lizarazu Vieira-Petit-Pires-Zidane-Djorkaeff Henry
90s.No doubt.Won more and better team,especially their defense.Probably strongest and most succesful NT defense
Goalkeepers are even, defense is better for 90s/early00s team, midfield is better for 80s team, attack is better for 90s/early00s team but it's only one player. I would say overall even but the 80s side had a more magical football to them. It won one more trophy but the overall placement is very equal. France 80s: 1 Euro, 2 WC semifinals France 90s/early00s: 1 WC, 1 Euro, 1 Euro semifinal
most succesfull thatd debatable.. then i got to look up their clean sheet record etc etc. but as for strognest ? how about this italy line up from around 1990.. bergomi, baresi, ferri, maldini ? i believe in all the games these 4 played only once did italy receive more then 1 goal against them.. they played 26 games together with 16 times a clean sheet.
I think the Euro2000 team surpasses any other French team because it had no weaknesses. Barthez was better than Bats certainly and the 90s/early00s team also had Trezeguet, Djorkaeff, Wiltord etc. in attack.
It was the most successful one in major competitions certainly. Thuram, Blanc, Desailly and Lizarazu played 28 games together with 18 clean sheets. France never lost a game with that back-four.
good call for Pliantoni so you think Deschamps Thuram or Vieira should be above Cantona? Naaaaahhhh Cantona was a rare skillful player France ever produced .. he was just not so lucky with France NT in his time
Based on skills only Cantona has a good claim to be high -but in that case Ginola should be here somewhere too- but I think there are other criterias like collective and individual achievements. So I think Deschamps, Thuram, Vieira, but also Tigana, Giresse, Papin, Piantoni, Vincent, Blanc, Tresor, Bossis, Desailly should be above him indeed. Larbi Ben Barek is hard to rank but he could be somewhere too.
ehm no.. they did play together for 34 games adn got 19 goals agaisnt them.. ferri, maldini, baresi, bergomi played togetehr 26 games and got 11 goals against them but to each his own opinion i am notr sayign the fench are bad.. just statign that other defensive line ups can make a claim as the all tiem best defensive line up.. a legitimate claim. for example this one.. maldini, tassotti, baresi, costacurta.........22 clean sheets in a single season 9when the serie A was the strongest competition in the world) also longest consecutive run in the serie A without conceedigna goal... 929 minutes...
No, that back-four played 28 games between 1996 and 2000, no more no less. They conceded 13 goals : Hristo Stoïchkov (Bulgaria) in 1996 (friendly game) Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands) in 1997 (friendly game) Davor Suker (Croatia) in WC1998 Igor Yanovsky and Aleksander Mostovoi (Russia) in 1998 (EC2000 qualifiers) Karapet Mikaelyan et Armen Shakhgeldyan (Armenia) in 1999 (EC2000 qualifiers) Eyjolfur Sverrisson et Brynjar Gunnarsson (Island) in 1999 (EC2000 qualifiers) Hiraoki Morishima (Japan) in 2000 (friendly game) Gaizka Mendieta (Spain) in EC2000 Nuno Gomes (Portugal) in EC2000 Marco Delvecchio (Italie) in EC2000 The additional 6 games and 6 goals you're talking about come from games in which one of several players of that backline were missing.
I do not disagree with you ... But it would be so .. embarrass to see Deschamps or Vieira above Cantona ... In skillset only Cantona was up there with zidane Kopa or Platini and slightly above Henry Papin Ginola It was just my rating...! But Piantoni would be in place for Makelele or so sure !
Barthez could be spectacular but also made numerous shockers throughout his career, Bats was far more solid. I think my two generational line-ups are basically the Euro00 team versus the Euro84 team (with Tresor). Agree the 90s/early00s generation had more depth, but despite that they were still useless without Zidane and Thuram. Cantona also has achievements besides his talent, he and Ferguson are the architects of Manchester United's resurgence to the top of English football. Stoichkov's goal was in Euro96.
Barthez didn't make 'numerous shokers' throughout his carreer. He made a couple of them, that's all. He had one and a half bad season in a 17 years carreer. It's a bit sad people rank him only based on that instead of actually watching his games with Marseille, Monaco of France. Barthez was a highly consistent and reliable GK, no less than Bats. And he had a highest peak, certainly. Your statement that the Euro00 team was useless without Zidane and Thuram is probably excessive. The same could be said about the Euro84 team without Platini by the way. Yes, but these are mostly domestic achievements. He never really shone in European competitions. His record with France is better than most people think however but still not better than Papin's, Piantoni's, Vincent's, Djorkaeff's etc. True, my mistake.
Yeah but how about world cup and euro performance?At world cup 98,all of the back four was the best at their position and even Thuram was the best player.Euro 2000 was awesome,too. Ac milan's mighty defense seem wasn't great at NT as at Club
I remember Barthez as a spectacular keeper but also prone to mistakes that a top-level goalie wouldn't make. He made quite a few during his career and even lost his Manchester United position to Tim Howard, a more reliable keeper. The thing about the Euro00 team without Zidane and Thuram statement is that there is proof of this: the WC06 qualifiers and to a lesser extent Euro08 itself. Whereas for the Euro84 team we really can't prove it either way since Platini and Tigana were always there. Of course they would have missed greatly Platini, but I wouldn't be too sure of calling the team useless without him.
well ... a player career did NOT depend on just ONE WC Zidane was MVP Euro 2000, WC2006 goldenball and Euro2004 all star team >> Thuram with WC98 and WC06
Again, he was terrible for a few months for lack of confidence and psychogical issues with MU but that's a small part of his carreer. He was great before that -even undoubtedly world class between 1997 and 2001- and still good after he left Manchester (though not as good as before). I hardly recall any big mistake in his around 80 caps for France. It's totally unfair to say he was an unreliable GK based on the few mistakes he made for MU whereas he was extremely reliable for the rest of his carreer. Given Platini was not only France's playmaker -alongside Giresse- but their main goalscorer too (and charismatic leader), I bet his influence on the team was even bigger than Zidane's. France would have most likely not qualified to three consecutive WCs (78, 82, 86) without Platini's heroics during the qualifiers. And what happened when he retired ? France didn't qualify to Euro88 and WC90.
Agree ... France carre' magique of 82-86 were very similar (affect) to Brazil 70 and Brazil 82 Pele ==== Zico ==== Platini Rivelino = Falcao == Tigana Gerson == Socrates= Giresse Jairzinho= Eder === Rocehteau Tostao == Serginho = Six Clodoaldo= Cerezo ==Genghini
I do recall a big mistake by Barthez playing for France, at the WC no less against Senegal giving up the winning goal, and I also don't believe that you would not remember this moment since it was so talked about and it happened at the biggest tournament of all just like I don't think it was just a mistake ascribing Stoichkov's goal as occurring in a friendly. While anyone can make mistakes, these ones are too obvious to err particularly for someone who follows the French NT devotedly, so I guess what I'm saying is I just don't think your arguments are honest like you want to pass them off. Not just Platini, but Giresse, Ghengini, Bossis all retired from the NT after 86, and Tigana only played two matches for France after 86.