Stadium News XVI:: Yes Virginia, There is NO Santa Claus

Back when we were discussing, oh about 6 threads ago, whether Fenty had a "secret backup plan," I mooted just this piece of property. It's an abandoned water treatment plant (its technology became obsolete about 20 years ago) that would need some environmental remediation before anything could go there. Frankly, a stadium would need less than, say, an apartment complex.

It ain't actually real convenient to Metro, though. Probably slightly closer to RI Ave than to the Howard stop.

 

"(202) 546-7023‎" - hmm - and thats not their official phone number either - (202) 587-5000

those are hefty walks - too bad no metro or community planners thought to put a metro stop up at the Washington Hospital Center

 

That North Capitol site is inconvenient for drivers pretty much all over the region (unless you're coming from, say, Brookland, Fort Totten or maybe Takoma Park). Much as I want the club to stay in the District, I think Greenbelt would be more practical than some non Metro accessible areas of NW/NE.

But hey, we're all just peeing into the wind here. There's really nothing practical to debate.

 

It's a perfect day for it

 

Just pissin' in the wind.
It's blowin' all over our friends.
We're gonna laugh and grin
and tell our grandchildren.

The answer my friend is pissin in the wind.


Don't know who wrote it, but I've heard versions by Jerry Jeff Walker and Steve Goodman.

asitis

 

Well, I'm definitely feeling the Eastern Avenue River Railway Blues in regards to the prospects for a new soccer specific stadium in D.C. proper.

And, I'm not strange I'm just like you . . .

 

Hate to say it--but I agree with you. My prediction: if a stadium deal is not done before YE2009 they will wind up moving to St. Louis.

 

I still go with 2013 as the drop-dead date - I doubt if there's a deal finalized by the end of 2009 - There's just too many things that could go wrong and too many things that give any given project some hope - But construction on something has to be started by a given date and I put that as 2013 - And I see that only in Greenbelt

 

I hope that you're right because a 2013 deadline gives four more years to play with. But, seriously, once Red Bull stadium comes online sometime next year, our RFK lease with the D.C. Sports & Entertainment Commission will suddenly become the biggest drain on the league's bottom line. And, since MLS is a single entity corporation, our business losses impact all of the league's investor/owners, not just Chang & McFarlane.

So, in our favor, we've got a ton of trophies and arguably the best supporter groups in MLS. But, hey, so did the old Cleveland Browns who had a once-great tradition of winning (remember Paul Brown, Marion Motley, Otto Graham & Jim Brown?) and truly great fans -- and the NFL didn't lift a single solitary finger to stop the Modell family from moving the Browns to Baltimore. And, tradition and great fans didn't deter MLB from allowing the legendary Brooklyn Dodgers to be moved to L.A. Unfortunately, the guys who run modern pro sports don't show much sentimentality at all when it comes to the bottom line.

My guess is that we've certainly got until the end of the 2010 season to get a deal done. That's because the league has committed to bringing in Seattle next year and Philadelphia in 2010. So, the next round of expansion is going to be either in 2011 or 2012 with two new teams coming into MLS as expansion teams (and my guess is that two additional expansion teams will be coming into the league a year or two thereafter). In my opinion, the maximum period of danger (and depression) will be after Philadelphia comes into the league in 2010 and MLS starts looking ahead to the next two rounds of expansion.

 

The league no longer pays stadium leases, that practice ended in 2001.

Also, since teams now give only 30% of their ticket revenue instead of 50% to the league collective (changed at the same time, and replaced by other sources of non-attendance revenue like a paying TV contract and SUM revenues), (and the league never did get a portion of concessions and the like AFAIK) the league has much less material interest in what an individual team does matchday revenue-wise than it once did. Basically, the difference between being with an SSS and without is all on the team owners, which was done by design to put the incentive onus on them to go out and get the deals done.

Also, moving DC United to an expansion prospective hurts rather than helps its attempt to drive expansion prices up. It's key to the price that they want you to believe that MLS teams are not easy to buy and relocate.

 

It is already spoken for:

Post Article

Though MacFarlane Partners is involved, there are a lot of historic preservation issues with the towers and the underground chambers.

Some of his partners in this and other ventures are competing to become the master developer at Hill East - which looks like it may take part/all of Lot 8 at RFK for parkland.

http://hdgwaterfrontpartners.com/

It seems to me that if there is an opportunity United may be willing to take it - though it might mean cutting ties with Barry to move across the river. That might not be very pretty. And, I think the timeline is even longer for this development (though it might be easier to take the build the stadium first approach here if they made it green and put in in the parking lot).

 

Nice to see you posting here. I've always felt that you have insight into the developmental picture, something that is sorely lacking in these stadium threads.

So here's another view of the situation. Rather than think of DC United as a liability for MacFarlane, is it instead an asset?

The Maryland study shows economic benefits of having a destination center for development. A soccer stadium has a guaranteed number of scheduled events, plus can be used to book others. So it then becomes a way to attract other businesses to buy into the idea of locating around that magnet, which means developers can build with an eye to actually having tenants who want their space.

If this is correct, the last thing MacFarlane and Chang want to do is cut loose DC United. It's their hole card, their developmental diamond. Who else has something as established and viable to offer?

Under this interpretation, the economic math becomes how much short term loss can be covered by long term gain. It may just be that the math allows them to be a lot more patient than we are. And my guess is that the Washington DC metro area is a much more valuable economic development area than is St. Louis. Viewed as an asset, these guys aren't going to either sell or relocate this team.

Plus, it's got to be a kick in the ass to be a sports team owner. And don't underestimate the value of the business connections they are making by being part of the millionaire/billionare club that is MLS' owners group. The key to making big money is being a member of the group that makes big money.

 

Man, what is the world coming to when that POS has "historic preservation issues."

 

I'll go a step further from your line

 

As long as the owners are willing to wait, I hope it is a long process. Other than helping the owners make money, there is little upside for us fans with a new stadium. I like RFK, it's run-down enough that they let us abuse it a bit. It's big enough to wonder about and get lost, maybe from security, for a while at half-time I don't know if you've tried to enhance your buzz at halftime at any of the new stadiums, but it's damned difficult at the HDC, and impossible at the PHP.
We have tons of parking lot space for multiple tailgates, etc. The chance of having tailgates at all at a new urban stadium are very low, the chance of having at least 2 major tailgates, probably nil.

So, you guys be in a hurry if you want. I'll be happiest if it gets built only days before RFK comes crashing to the ground when the support beams fail

 

As it would be to most of us...

I don't agree with this.



I know FIFA would not allow this but I would like to see MLS maxed out at 24 teams.

 

Hey, you'd be amazed at what FIFA would allow as long as Jack Warner got a piece of the pie...

 

An argument for a potential stadium near New Carrollton?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/03/AR2009010301739.html

 

Then we could divide it in half then have United Premier League and then the Red Bull Galaxy league.

 

repped! I like the way you think.

 

Thanks. I don't know why that exactly came to me other than it was triggered by what b1968k had posted about MacFarlane Partners being involved in DC development and going after opportunity.

It is a point of view that certainly turned on my optimism. Got to have a positive view of this whole thing, and this way of looking at it helps a lot.

 

I've got my eye on a nice piece of land down here in Durham... c'mon Vic and Will... Dirty South United :-D

 

The Dookies are trying to move the team to the Triangle?

 

I'm not even sure the Dookies are still part of the ownership group.

That said, there is an excellent spot down here backing up to warehouses that would be very Camden Yards-ish.