Squad v Russia

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Nigel_Sausagepump, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. Nigel_Sausagepump

    Nigel_Sausagepump New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    Given, Kiely, Colgan

    Harte, Breen, Kelly, Cunnigham, Finnan, O'Shea, Babb

    McAteer, Holland, Kilbane, Healy, Kinsella, Carsley, Delap, McPhail

    Keane, Morrison, Duff, Doherty.

    Interesting inclusions - Babb, McPhail, O'Shea, Doherty as a striker.

    Interesting omissions - Butler, Reid, Kennedy

    Worry - Cover at left back? I see on the Leeds Rivals.net board Hartey was unanimously panned for his performance and lack of pace against Sunderland......I still worry gravely about him.

    Line up will prob be


    Oh for Healy, Duff on the left and Clinton up front.
  2. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    A starting line up that hardly fills you with excitment, it must be said, but I'd definitely agree that is what I would expect to see against Russia unless he puts Kells in at right back or right of mid field.

    An interesting side note, according to UTV Kilbane didn't even make Sunderlands sub bench yesturday, was he injured or suspended?

    Oh, and Reid and Kennedy are injured as far as I know, but I'd agree with an interesting omission being Butler, surley he must be ahead of McPhail in the pecking order.
  3. frankk

    frankk New Member

    Aug 29, 2002
    agree with your line up nigel but wish mccarthy wouldn't play his best players out of position.

    duff is a WINGER not a full forward, can't mccarthy get that through his skull.

    i'm split between morrison, doherty and delap to (ideally) partner robbie. although morrison will do until sadlier is fit.

    i asked some southampton fans on their rivals site what they though of him. they reckoned he had a split season - he improved when he thought he had a shot at the world cup. although i'm a fan of rory's it pretty apparent he lacks focus.

    kilbane looks likely to be replaced by butler at club and country level. although in that position he's only a duff-lite.

    with everyone fit, i'd go for

    finnan/carr, breen, o'shea, harte (reluctantly!)
    reid, kinsella, holland, duff
    keane, morrison (for now)

  4. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    You wont found many, espically me, who'll disagree on your point about Duff, just about everyone saying it yet he's still wasted up front. As for Morrison, I rate him as our second best striker when all are fit as it stands anyway.
  5. lively

    lively New Member

    Aug 28, 2002
    goalkeeper = the 'wee donegal fella
    right/left defenders = Carr (why can't he shake off those injuries)/Finan + Kells
    centre partnership = O'Shea + Cunningham,
    centre midfield = Kinsella + Healy
    wingers = duffer (not a striker!) + reid
    strikers = keano (there's only one!) + Morrision (until Sadlier is fit)

    just my tuppence worth!
  6. WishyWashy

    WishyWashy New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    Re : frankk

    You say "i'm split between morrison, doherty and delap to (ideally) partner robbie. although morrison will do until sadlier is fit."

    - Clearly you are some kind of nut!
  7. frankk

    frankk New Member

    Aug 29, 2002
    Re: Re : frankk

    ok, my reasoning..........

    can we assume that robbie's best partner is not damien duff - he belongs on the wing.

    when robbie is playing well, regardless of which club he is playing for at the time, he is usually partnered with someone who has a large physical presence...

    niall quinn @ ireland
    mark viduke @ leeds
    cedric roussel @ coventry

    he is at his most dangerous when he can run onto a pass where he is left facing the keeper one-on-one. how any times have we seen attacks collapse when his back is to goal or when there is little or no understanding between him and his attacking partner - specifically duff and morrison.

    morrison, is not an international striker. he constantly looks lost and out of his depth (but he will get better). the term 'bambi on ice' springs to mind when i think of him.

    which leaves....

    gary doherty - they have known each other for years and while he is somewhat thuggish, he plays in a better team, is good in the air and can pass the ball (and is from donegal!!!). altogether a better foil for robbie.

    rory delap - i have said on this board the he lacks focus but no-one can underestimate his ability. southampton thought enough of him to make him their record signing. he has great control and is intelligent footballer with a deft pass (and is from donegal!!!).


    richie sadlier - posesses all the necessary physical qualities of a great centre forward. better control than clinton, has an international pedigree from the ireland underage setup. if milwall sell him, it'll be for a lot more money than morrision and it won't be to birmingham. he's young (although injury prone) and is getting better every season.
    milwall fans love him - and they watch him every week.

    if it was my decision it would be, in order of preference...........

  8. Plastic Paddy

    Plastic Paddy New Member

    Aug 5, 2002
    Hammersmith, London
    Re: Re : frankk

    What is it about you and the personal insults, Wishy? Just because you don't agree with frankk doesn't mean you have the right to call him "some kind of nut" FWIW, I think he has a point about a target foil for Robbie, and when Richard Sadlier is fit, I think he's just that player.

    Morrison is capable of playing at international level, and will prove it with time. He's just a different type of player up front, and as such gives us extra options...

    :D PP - Come on Ireland!
  9. WishyWashy

    WishyWashy New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    Paddy you mad lunatic!

    It's a pity I haven't the time to get into this fully with you right now, but here I'll have a go anyway.
    Firstly, this Frankk character had not made his point about "a target foil for Robbie" in the post I responded to, he only named players. His supplementary post clarified this. That seems to pretty much wipe out your main objection to my original response.
    Secondly, do we pick the best 11 players to represent our country in their positions, or do we pick the 10 that Robbie Keane prefers paying with, along with Robbie himself of course, to line out?
    Thirdly, I don't dispute the fact, nor have I, that Sadlier is a decent player and could play his way into the Ireland set up. But to suggest that he should be in there ahead of Clinton Morrisson, who has shown ability and potential for the Irish Senior team, is madness at this point in time.
    Fourthly, although Delap has indeed played as a striker and done well in the past, at underage international and club level, he has not played there for a long time (a few minutes against Finland aside) whereas Clinton is a striker through and through!
    Fifthly, Doherty has performed best, and scored more goals, in the last few years, playing as a centre-half.

    To put it in a "nut-shell", maybe Frankk is not a complete nut, but Paddy, the jury is well and truly out on you, you icon-loving freakshow!

    btw. I hope you are not just coming onto this messageboard to pick a row with me!
  10. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    I find it stupid saying "Morrison looks out of debt at international level" and then shouts for Sadlier being the man, Morrison has two goals in one start for us and Sadliers played less then a half and barley got a shot away, come on!

    Morrison, Keane and Duff's (wide left) link up play against Denmark was breath taking, the first two scored the latter got man of the match and set up Ian Hartes header. Morrison is suprisingly strong and alot bigger then you give him credit for and will prove this season premierships suprise package.

    Delap is a mid fielder, always has been and always will be, said as much himself. Despite his season at Derby you can't take someone who's playing mid field at club level and throw him up front, espically when he hasn't played a competitive game for us since god knows when.

    Doherty is a centre half, has said so himself and so has Mick and Hoddle. They only throw him up front in an emergency and I'd love to see him form a partnership with O'Shea at the back for years to come, also, his goal scoring international record is poor at best, espically when put next to Morrisons, as is Duffs and Delaps.

    The Denmark attack is the best option, Duffer wide left, Clinton the off the top striker finishing the chances and Keane deep running riot, with the two strikers inter changing and Duff winning man of the match every time.
  11. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FYI -- Ireland is catching Russia at an opportune time -- the team captain is out, as well as the 2 young stars of the team at WC 2002.

  12. Nigel_Sausagepump

    Nigel_Sausagepump New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    I must say that I agree with you in general, but having witnessed Duffer's defensive display against Liverpool on Wednesday, I'd be very hesitant of him playing wide left if that Leeds crock is playing behind him.
    Duff was picked out twice by Andy Gray for not tracking back, and one of these incidents led directly to Murphy's goal. Personally, I don't believe that a winger should have to worry overly about defending, especially one of Duff's calibre. I think your left sided defender should live up to his title and be able to defend the left side.

    However, if Mick continues to play the slowest thing since a broken wheelbarrow at left back, we simply have to have a defence minded left winger...ie Kilbane.
  13. Junior_Manc

    Junior_Manc New Member

    Jul 30, 2002
    Manchester, England
    Fully endorse that. Morrison has looked very assured and sharp in his few bit part appearances as well as linking up well with Robbie.

    This has to be the strike partnership of the future, although as most posters seem to fear it will be Duff and Keane up front for the Russia game.
  14. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    NS, I agree with you, but where was the full back on Murphys goal? Also, I'd hope that we can use Carr and Finnan (left back) as our full backs, read a story in the paper today that Carr would yet make the Russia squad! He wont start, but it's good news. Kilbane at left back is too big a risk as things stand, this should have been used in friendly matches, and it's a pity, because he looks a decent left back and does have the attributes needed.
  15. Jonah

    Jonah New Member

    Bring back Roy keane for ************s sack, his crime was he only thought that Ireland had a good chance of winning the last world cup, and expressed his seriousness.

    Good to see that Mick has finally included the best irish defender, O'shea. Paul Tierney at left back. he is a guy who will be a regular at Utd in 2 years time. give him a batism of fire in pace of harte.

    Good to see Carr Back,

    And Healy just sighed for sundireland

    We mean business know, What a team:


  16. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Has Healy actually signed or is it a rumour and how good is Tirenay!?
  17. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Tiernay's supposedly quite good, although it'll be interesting to see if he plays for Utd this season. I read yesterday that MCCarthy said that he was going to give him a run out in the Greece friendly in a couple of months - he's been very impressed by what he saw playing for the U-21's. Competition at left back anyway.
  18. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Nice one, he's a very bright prospect and only 19 isn't it? We really are producing some quality full backs, if Carr returns within the week or so he's supposed to and Finnan plays left side plus Tireney emerging, we're set for a long time.
  19. Don Homer

    Don Homer New Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Dublin, Ireland
    Slash/ED and I argued this point in the WC!

    The Irish team is picked essentially to protect a fragile back-line and exposing Harte from the start is just asking for real trouble. So, until he gets a lot better or someone else comes along who can do the job better, the odds are Duffer will be upfront and someone more robust in the tackle will be on the left wing. If a game is going down the pan anyway, then switch - like in the WC!

    I know Slash/ED says Finnan can go in at left f-back. But McCarthy has never looked to experiment with that in a friendly, so he will hardly risk it in a big game.

    In fairness, Mick is just following the golden rule of football, unless you were raised on the Copacabana, build from the back out...
  20. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Well, to be honest, and not many will agree with this, he should play Duff as a winger or not play Duff at all. If he feels Kilbane offers the needed support to Harte then play Kilbane left wing and either put Duff on the right or on the bench. Let's face facts, not only is he better as a winger but he's also a terrible striker. His goal record proves that, and Robbie is far from a natural poacher himself, we need someone like Morrison up there to put away our half chances. Also, his main attribute, dribbling, is nulified up front as any time he gets the ball it's with his back to goal and he and Robbie are to similar and small to play together, imo. It'd take a manager with guts to drop our best player, but if he can't play in the position he's good at he shouldn't play at all.
  21. frankk

    frankk New Member

    Aug 29, 2002
    am i stupid?

    When sadlier made his debut for Ireland (ironically against russia back in february) it was obvious - to anybody who was there - that he was a far better player than morrison. in fact our post match analysis in the pub was centred around how good the guy was and how we were a much more effective unit with him on the pitch. unfortunately persistant injury problems have robbed him of a decent run in the team - so far.

    i don't deny that morrison gives us options. i concede that ireland have always been bereft of attacking variety. when morrison is in the team i can honestly say that i haven't a clue what he is going to do next (unfortunately neither do any of our lads on the pitch!). i'm not trying to discredit clinton, it's pretty obvoius the guy have talent but he's not ready for the step up YET. as for his goals-to-game ration? i could've scored his goal against croatia and i'm rubbish, it was a tap in to an empty net. he played a token game in the u-21 against portugal and wasn't anything special then.

    my point about doherty and delap was meerly to highlight options in what I see as our most effective style of play. i don't think the points about them being played out of position is valid because if premership managers can't agree what their best position is - how can we?

    the point previously made about trying to make a team to play around keane is utterly ridiculous. i think, and it's only a personal opinion, that we should play to the strengths of our better players, specifically duff and keane, without weakening the team unit as a result.

    when ireland play russia, do me a favour and count the number of wasted balls that will be knocked into our vertically challenged front two. i still think we'll get something from the game but just look at the wasted chances. better teams will take us to the cleaners when we do that.

    in conclusion, this discussion is pure fantasy anyway. as it was mentioned earlier, mccarthy will always play harte at left back which means that he can't play duff on the wing because he offers no defensive cover which means that kilbane plays on the wing so duff must play alongside robbie.
  22. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Frank, let me ask you something, barring Morrisons goal V Croatia, when was the last tap in Ireland scored? Can you even remember it? Goal poaching is an art, one Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Gary Doherty and Rory Delap aren't capable of doing on a regular basis, if he could score 20 tap ins we'd be happy, and he has the ability to do it, and I thought that despite how impressive sadlier was (I was there too) that Morrison against Denmark, his only full international to date, was far more impressive, and his finish in that match was sublime.
  23. frankk

    frankk New Member

    Aug 29, 2002
    well slash/ed, i guess the last tap in was against robbie's goal against finland. i remember it pretty well as it was only a matter of days ago. in my defence, clinton scored because against crotia beacuse nobody bothered to mark him as he didn't play particularly well - he was constantly caught out of position and never offered himself as support. as for denmark, yes he did have a fairly good game (see, i can nice!) but his goal was far from sublime as he did't get a good connection with ball and it still hit the keeper on it's way in. if clinton morrison scores 20 goals in the permiership this season i'll be the first one to congratulate him but he's just not that good. did he score against leeds today? no! has he scored for birmingham in the league after 4 games? no!

    we seem to be discussing/arguing on the potential of two strikers as opposed to what they have actually achieved. only time will prove who is right.

    we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one
  24. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Sorry, forgot about Keanes goal, but we don't get many and we need someone capable of getting them, also, today was his full debut since he was injured and he still came off after 70 minutes since he's not fit, but he has scored in the premiership, on his debut for Palace the day they went down, aswell as scoring against a host of top flight clubs in the cup.
  25. frankk

    frankk New Member

    Aug 29, 2002
    i think we'd get more of those presious tap-ins you like so much if sadlier nods them down to keane and if we have the likes of a reid/finnan overlap and duff floating in from the left. if we have balls coming in from all angles, varying the play then we'll stretch any defence.

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