Sanguine has my sentiments correct. I just don't think there are very many legitimate "superstars" in this league. DC United has spent the last few seasons looking for a saviour instead of getting a bunch of guys that play well together but are not dominating on their own. I want to see a team out there and not a bunch of individuals!
In a 3-5-2 Reyes is best suited to be on the right wing rather than as a marking back. See Daniel le Rouge's lineup for a good example of how to make it work, although I would put Petke on the right and Nelsen in the center.
Problem with the 3-5-2 is that while Reyes is certainly comfortable out on the right, I'm not sure Convey or Olsen would be as comfortable on the left. I agree with whoever said that both seemed to disappear when thrust into such a wide role. In a 4-4-2 Reyes will still be able to get forward more or less as he wishes, simply because of the players he's playing around. He'll be playing behind Olsen, who is very responsible defensive, and in with three defenders (Petke, Nelsen, then take your pick of Prideaux, Stokes, or Namoff) who don't go forward as much.
Yowza! I couldn't get on for a full 24 hours and look at all the good thoughts here. This restores my faith in all of us that once we stop bickering, we can come up with some pretty interesting ideas. I put Daniel's lineup here because to me it sums up best how to use the guys who we think are coming back to their best. All told, we work best in a 352 rather than a 442. Yes, Olsen did much better in a 442 this year, but that was at the expense of too many other players out of position. But we can bend the traditional 352 to better fit Benny while letting the other starters play their more natural positions. Specifically: - Prideaux, Petke, and Nelsen are strictly stay at home defenders. In a 442 Hudson was usually requiring Prideaux to do the traditional attacking-from-the-outside-wing-thing, which he isn't comfortable with. remember in grade scholl playing basketball? The short kid who couldn't shoot was alwyas not guarded by the other team? Brandon. Possible subs: Well Stokes hopefully will fit in here. Even better, Stokes would force his way into the starting lineup since as noted above we could use his speed. - Reyes, on the other hand, was born for going forward from a deep position, then sprinting back. So he goes perfectly in the lineup above. Possible subs: we have none really. Maybe Namoff could slide over here. Lets all pray that Milton has a productive and injury free rehab in Honduras this winter. - Olsen is a good balance to Reyes- giving us serious attacking wingers. But Benny needs to start closer to goal. Fortunately he can play either side. In Daniel's lineup, Benny doesn't have the defensive responsibilities that Milton has. Possible subs: Quaranta, who could be a sub at all the attacking positions. - Namoff can be a good d-mid as he is quick enough. Possible subs: Hopefully Carroll could grow into this role. I never understood why Hudson kept putting him on the wings as Carroll has always been a central mid and putting him on a wing is like putting Dema there: a total waste. - Convey and Kovalenko as pinched in attacking wing mids. First both of these guys are better in the middle than the wing. Maybe that's not true with Convey, but the way he was always alone the last two years at left wing means that he needs to be more involved to be efective. Dema is awful if he goes to wide. But having them start out pinched in means that they can flip flop fairly easily- and with Stewart also. Subs: Q1 and Q2, though I sure would shoot Q2 if he stops one more fast break. You know who else? Barclay, who was also absolutely wasted on the wing by Hudson. He's an attacking player who likes to make runs at goal from midfield- but not too far back. - Stewart is also an a-mid/withdrawn forward too so this gets him at his preferred position withough making Convey and Kovalenko play out of position. Possible subs: Freddy Adu? Can't believe I wrote that. Cerritos would naturally be good here; same with Quaranta. Kovalenko could move in here. Maybe Eskandarian. - The Striker position? Martins is right now our best fit and he might succeed if the rest of our offense waas not as dysfunctional as last year's. Quaranta again is a possibility. Esky too even though he's not the traditional tall target. But since the rest of our attackers aren't particularly tall, we souldn't be relying on high crosses anyway, Probably we will have some different faces in this lineup. Hopefully those players will be looked judged to be useful to our team by how they fit in with the other players, not just on their individual skills.
Nice to agree with you boss. We have a bunch of good workers if they are played in their correct positions. Too bad we don't have The Cartographer still...he'd show us the way.
Uh, I don't think you got what I was saying. I was comparing Reyna's and El Pibe's speed to Dema's. The post is called speed up the middle and I was simply mentioning that you don't have to be fast in order to be an effective central midfielder.
I must say the DC fans have some of the most interesting threads. Running around the league: - Once NE got Cancela they definately played a diamond midfield to maximize Cancela, and probably had the best Central midfield in the league. - Metros played a box midfield for most of the season, with Lisi and Guevara up top and Clark and Williams behind. As the season went on Bradley seemed to get restless and things degenerated until im not really sure what they were trying to do, but if I had to guess it would still be a box. - Chicago played a box midfield when in a 4-4-2 as I recall, and with an A-Mid in a 3-5-2. - Columbus played a diamond midfield. - KC played a 3-5-2, with preki as an attacking midfielder, but now seems to have more of a 3-6-1 look. - Dallas played a diamond midfield. - SJ played a flat four, with Mulrooney the more aggresive of the two, sometimes making it look like a diamond. - LA played a 3-5-2, almost a 3-4-3 with Cobi roaming free across the field. - Colorado played a box midfield, with Mastroeni and Beckerman as paired D-mids, and Chung and Henderson free to attack. A diamond midfielder I think works to really free up the central playmaker to be an attacker, and as such I think is well suited to teams with a Cancela or Martino. I dont see DC having a player like that right now, so I dont see this as being terribly good for you to stick with. A box midfield basicly turns your outside defenders into stay at home types, and frees up a pair of players to attack freely. Offensive width is provided by the attacking mids who are free to roam. The defensive mids are only really defensive in that they have central defensive responsibilities, but for the most part they are two way players. Good if you dont have good attacking outside backs and have a pair of very good offensive middies you want to highlight. The thing is, I dont see DC having a pair of great attacking mids, so I dont see this as they way to go for you guys. A flat midfield, like SJ uses basicly works like a diamond much of the time, but you cant be sure who will be at the AM slot. Basicly the sacrifice is that you are not able to feature a central midfielder offensively, but you gain some tactical unpredictability. That I think is where DC should go. You dont have one central midfielder to feature, but you do have pretty good 2-way central midfielders. All three are probably oversimplifications. I think when you really break it down any combinations of players that has 2 dedicated attackers at all times (they dont have to always be the same people), 3 dedicated defenders at all times (the 3 on D can change during a game), offensive and defensive width and at least 2 people in the middle of the field, can probably be made to work. Assuming that the players you put on the field can do what you ask them to.
The reality is that the chances of obtaining a classic number 10, attacking midfielder, are pretty slim. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Not that many teams play with a classic number 10. There are many other options -- as this thread demonstrates. The trick will be match the right midfielders with the right alignment. For my money, the best four soccer players among the possibilities in the current roster are Convey, Olsen, Stewart and Namoff. It shouldn't be that hard to work out an alignment that they all feel comfortable with. I can see many possibilities for them to interchange positions because all are reasonably athletic and skilled. At first blush that would leave DC with a back four of Reyes, Prideaux, Nelsen and Petke. Not bad, but Reyes makes my nervous -- often poor judgement when to go forward. Overall, DC would not get good distribution from the back from those four. And overall speed, other than Reyes, is poor. I would be happier with a more athletic central defender paired with Nelsen and Petke pushed out to one side or another.
First, I was mostly just giving Rev a hard time. Nothing intended to be snarky. But on the subject, we've got tons of journeymen already and I'd love to see someone come in who pulls it altogether and orchestrates. That's what we're missing. Ray had the right idea that that was what we needed, he was just dead wrong all the way that Etch was the answer to the question.
No Dema? Your money must be counterfeit because: a) you did not include Dema and b) Stewart is probably better off playing forward in MLS
You know, as much as I like Kovalenko's talent and passion for the game, I just don't see him as a mid. I don't really see him as a forward either, but that's another thread. But if you had a three-man central midfield of, say, Namoff, Kovalendo and Convey you could give Convey free reign and then have the other two tag-team the d-mid responsibilities. But both can get forward pretty well, so you'd have to be careful. Then put Olsen and ?? (Q1? Q2? Stewart?) out wide.
Martins Stewart Kovalenko Convey Olsen Quaranta Namoff Prideaux Petke Reyes There's your speed lineup. Kovalenko should be as close to the forwards and the center as possible. He is a terrible passer but a good finisher. Prideaux should play in the center. He is an even worse passer. You could switch Stewart and Q1, but Q1's best games this year have been at right mid and Stewart's best games have been at forward. I really want to see Bobby in the center but his confidence is down and Olsen is now our team leader as well as the best defender among the midfielders. Work Stokes, Carroll, Eskandarian, and Adu into the lineup. Let Nelsen make some decent money in Europe.
getting to the point of this thread, as long as we never play etch, chino, hristo, and q2 in the middle of the field, we will have acomplished this goal... no matter which formation you use, somebody plays out of position, so you have to choose a formation that works the best for the most people. Also, unless you can find a true DM AND a true AM, playing a diamond won't work. since we don't have a true AM, looking for a true DM is just about pointless IMHO unless you want to get an AM too, and then what do you do with earnie, dema and bobby? So, i think we should spend sometime finding a left back. maybe roberto carlos is available? Our best bet (as others have posted) is the 442 with a combintation of bobby, earnie, dema and benny in the middle. dema needs to be in the middle and benny needs to be on the right to maximize their abilities. reyes at right back is the best spot for him, nellie and petke play best in the center. prideaux and hopefully stokes back up the central guys. If we can find a decent left back who can come forward (better than prideaux...) then the team starts to take shape.
The problem with the box midfield is that it requires complete box-to-box fullbacks. While Reyes is just that kind of player with endless stamina, no-nonsense ground attacking style and very good defensive ability coupled with amazing recovery speed ... we don't have someone like that for the left wing. So, the alternatives would be something like this: A) A skewed diamond midfield with the right wing midfielder pinching into the center as a two-way player. IMHO, that's a role better suited for Dema than either Dmid or Amid, as he'd be free of many machups and be able to arrive late to the attack and take shots from distance while loosely marked or totally unmarked--and thankfully he's not shy about actually shooting. B) Call Reyes a wingback and run a 352 with Convey as the left wingback. This would allow United to play with 3 central defenders along the back line, freeing one (i.e. Nelsen or Petke) to sneak forward late for an aerial threat. This forces the opposing goalie and central defenders to constantly re-organize the defense in fear of the unmarked man. C) Run a flat 4 midfield (442) with the right wing midfielder given freedom to roam anywhere he wants. This is exactly the role Stewart usually plays for the USMNT. -Digital
Here's a novel idea, instead of changing players and formations, change tactics! The problems are that we lack a creative left fullback and seldom have a consistent crossing threat on the flanks. Crossing does not need to be in the air, it can be a long sharp layback pass for a trailing attacker, but it needs to dramatically shift the angle that the defense needs to defend, thus creating gaps and shooting lanes. IMHO, the only good crossers we have are: Stewart on the right and both Convey, Stoichkov and Carroll on the left. A few others can do it, but either lack the pace (i.e. Etch, Quintanilla), accuracy (i.e. Reyes) or desire to cross (Olsen, Dema). So, our attack--which is dreadfully slow to begin with--becomes very predictable. United provides no long range shots, no danger from crosses, no return passes in a give-and-go, no diagonal runs, no box-clearing runs, and no forcing the defenders to switch coverage. Almost all we see is constant over-passing that leads to an occasional straight on shot against a set defense. This tactic is devoid of purpose, devoid of teamwork and utterly shyte IMHO. And don't get me started on our free-rambling, existentialistic corner kick muddle. There are a lot of options, but currently, the only one United chooses is caution. I've never seen dangerous caution, but I'm sure Hudson/Trask honestly believe they have. -Digital
Kovalenko presents a real challenge to a manager. Although physical, he is not a good defensive players. He does not read the game well. He lacks quickness. And his one on one defensive technique is poor. Even Ray has figured out that playing Dema as a classical defensive midfielder is a mistake. On the offensive side, Dema does not pass well and, again, does not read the game well. Dema will hustle and tangle with opponents, but is not a well-rounded soccer player at all. Dema's hustle has gotten him some goals, but he has done little to create opportunities for others. Namoff, Convey, Stewart, and Olsen all have decent offensive and defensive skills and, in particular, can pass well enough and read the game welll enough to blend with other players. Replacing any of them in the midfield with Dema would significantly weaken the team on the field. If Dema has a value for the team, it is as a late game substitute -- to increase the work rate -- or as a temporary replacement for one of the regular midfielders.
Good thread [finally]. I think it bears repeating that the most important upgrade in speed that the team can make for next season is in speed of thought. All the speed in the world can be beaten if it isn't creatively applied. The way I see it, Brian Namoff has earned a shot at the midfield. He's a quick two-way player that needs a bit more match experience to improve even more. He could be the solution as a midfielder who is basically defending, or disrupting, but has the ability to transition into attack. He could be our Chris Armas with a little polishing. Consider a lineup like this: . . . . Martins . Forward #2 Stewart . Convey . Kovalenko . Olsen . . . . . . . . . . Namoff . . . Petke . . . Nelsen . . . Reyes . . . . . . . . . . Rimando Use Namoff as a destroyer, patrolling in front of the back line, that can connect between the defense an offense. The nice thing about this lineup is that it could actually work the way Ray likes things. You've got a lot of talented attackers out there who could potential swarm around the field, switching positions at times, but generally keeping to a set formation. If things aren't working [there's that speed of thought thing again], make a change by dropping Namoff to the back line, etc. This is using personnel that we have now. If the team is able to upgrade in talent, then great, maybe we'll have an even speedier option.
I still don't think Namoff is good enough to be a d-mid. Put him on the left with Convey and Stewart in the middle and Olsen on the right. Speed aplenty across the board in that lineup.
Another question is whether or not Reyes would be wasted (or even a liability) playing in the back of 3-5-2. Reyes is dangerous going forward, and often does so with impunity. At least when he makes an ill-advised foray in a 4-4-2 we'll have Petke, Nelsen, plus the left back (Prideaux, Namoff, Stokes?) to cover. Actually, a skewed 4-4-2 may be the formation that best fits this team: Martins Cerritos Convey Dema Stewart Olsen Prideaux Petke Nelsen Reyes Olsen is a stronger defender than Convey, and will be called upon to defend playing in front of Reyes. Playing ahead of Prideaux or Namoff, Convey won't have a wing back to play off of, but nor will he have daunting defensive responsibilities. Of course, this all could be moot depending on what kind of turnover we have this offseason. But regardless of who we have next season, the coaches, whoever they may be, damn better well fit the formation and the tactics to the team, rather than the other way around.
I agree 100%. Our best midfield next season is going to be Olsen-Stewart-Kovalenko-Convey. All relatively fast, all two-way players, and all are capable of creating offense. This will beat the "give it to the #10 and hope he can think of something" strategy every time. Chung plays on the left, Vaca (when he does play) is mostly on the right, and Mulrooney is actually the more defensive of SJ's pairing. SJ's midfield is actually the one I think we're most fit to emulate with our current players. Actually, you can play a flat midfield if you have the right players...it doesn't have to be a box. Besides the fact that Prideaux is quite fast... Stokes may have speed, but you have to worry a lot more about his tactical awareness and his focus. Stokes will one day be a very good defender in this league, but right now he doesn't have the ability to focus for 90 minutes. We already have a guy who does that in Ivanov, and at least he's pretty good on the ball. Stokes should get time, absolutely, but he shouldn't be a starter after an essentially wasted rookie season. Agreed...this is a refreshing thread. If we used a 352, I'd agree totally here. No need for any of those 3 to do more than play the ball to Reyes or Namoff. I'd actually consider Reyes on the left and Olsen on the right, in this formation. Olsen seems less comfortable on the left, while Reyes played several games in 2002 on the left side of the back three. I'm not saying he's any better of a fit than Olsen on the left, but that's what I would do if this was my preferred formation. I have to say, though, that it isn't. Your arguments for this formation are all very good, but this becomes a personal preference thing. The possibility of a right side consisting of Reyes at right back and Olsen at right midfield (which would be easily the best right side any MLS team has ever fielded), combined with the other players we have, to me, says 442. Namoff will make a pretty solid left back...no worse than some of the other guys that are considered good around the league. I've also bounced the idea of trading Prideaux for Cunningham (if he doesn't stick in Germany), to give us a very different look up front. Columbus certainly needs the defenders, and we're dying for someone that actually dribbles at people. Actually, I think you're underrating your own central midfield combination. It degenerated because teams figured out the problem with the box: no wing play. You clog the middle, and teams in a box fail. Bradley screwed up badly when he traded away Brad Davis. That was less of a box and more of two wingers and two holding mids. That's why it was a bit more difficult to stifle than the metros' "everybody stand in the same place" plan. I agree entirely. The players we have are best suited for this (despite this not being the system of the coach that brought them in). This is partially coaching and partially a symptom of our current set up (that is, get the ball to Etch or Hristo and hope they do something magical). This is a very interesting idea. We have to acknowledge that Hudson will probably be back if Etch doesn't come back (it seems to be the major issue between his quitting or not). So, formations that fit for Hudson and our current players are going to be important. That's probably the best one out of our players, though I think Convey on the left will be able to work harder for longer than Stewart. *** Longwinded? No, never... This skewed 442 looks better and better to me. It allows for us to have Prideaux out there as "left back", but his lack of attacking ability isn't exposed. Convey will be freed up to attack more. Whichever of Stewart, Kovalenko, and Namoff will form a good central midfield. Maybe not on par with the very best in the league, but combined with our wing play it'll be good enough to do some damage. Our right side, as I said, will destroy anyone. With that group behind the front line, I think even I could grab 3 or 4 goals up there. Martins, Cerritos, even Esky...they should all get a decent number of goals with that lineup behind them.
Actually, Cunningham is out of contract and could be signed without a trade or deal with Columbus. I think we'd be fools not to give him a tryout. as he is what we need in a striker. Plus, he was already on my want list.
At the beginning of the season they got the width from DiGi and Ziadie pushing up from the back. Then injuries happened to their defense and they never got it again.
Reyes as one of three backs is a scary notion. Reyes does not always use good judgement about when to go forward. In a three-back lineup, a mistake in that area could be fatal. If Reyes plays, it has to be as a fourth fullback or as a wingback. Unfortunately, his passing ability is quite limited, so wingback could prove a real challenge for him. Like Kovalenko, Reyes is a player without a natural position. You would like to think that he has enough talent, athleticism and whatever to make a contribution, but it's hard to find the right place to put him. Maybe that's why he was available in the first place