Wednesday night. Just when it was opportune, necessary even, for Spain's coach Luis Aragonés to comment he did not. For the first time since the harangue on José Antonio Reyes in which he referred to Thierry Henry as a "black sh1t" Aragonés refused to say anything. By refusing to express condemnation or even sadness at the chants, by the wry grin that stretched across his face, he did little to prove himself not a racist. The behaviour of the crowd was as nonsensical as that of Aragonés: a "Stop Immigration" banner, monkey noises and chants of "whoever doesn't bounce is a fu cking black" as almost the whole stadium bounded up and down. I for one think that the English FA should have ordered the English players off the pitch. It was totally unacceptable RACISM.
I hope so to. England has had it's problems in the past with racism and hooliganisim nobody is denying that. But in the UK the fans/crowds and teams/playesr/coaches have come a long way. Wenger says: "It was surprising and a bit of a shock to see this kind of thing on a football pitch but a lot has been said about it and you can only say it was shocking," said Wenger. "We didn't speak about it because we are preparing for a game but I would think we were over that in 2004 and it shows the fight against stupidity is never won. "I believe in a stadium of 50,000, that maybe 2,000 were stupid and 48,000 had fair behaviour. You should punish them and not let them get into any game. "England is an example of that. They handled the example with hooligans very well where they ban people from getting into the stadiums. "I can't believe you can accept that kind of behaviour, people cannot go along with that. "It makes me feel amazed. We are so far from that kind of attitude, miles away from it. I'm surprised it still exists, like it is projected in a different world. "I think I share that view with many people in England."
Initially I was really angry with the situation in Spain and then I got even more angered by the non-response of the Spanish manager, media and relevant authorities who just seemed to accept racism as “part of life” and somehow they were provoked into being racists. Now they seem to be admitting that there is a problem and also that it is not a new problem. We all know that it is only a minority, but the real test is how people react to the behaviour of this minority (unfortunately the minority includes the manager of the team) and in this case the pertinent people and authorities were very reluctant and slow in their condemnation of the racist minority. Ho-hum, it is still the beautiful game
I attended the Barcelona-Real Madrid match in 1999 (I think) at Camp Nou. Real Madrid had a black player (don't recall who) and there was the same sort of gorilla noises everytime he touched the ball. It wasn't everyone in the stadium but it wasn't just one little section either. I was stunned. I presume that since it was happening 5 years ago and it's happening today, that this is just a "dirty little secret" of Spanish football. All countries and cultures have their problems with racism. But happened Wednesday night was clearly over the line. Spain has to address this immediately.
But why distinguish Henry as being black? Thats the point you can't seem to get into your thick skull. Denial must be a happy place for you....
umm I didnt post that, but yes its a nice place, full of beers drugs and hooligans that get ********ing crushed with baseball bats,, what a wonderfull place you want to join???
No you didn't - it appears your post was deemed unacceptable by a moderator and deleted. Why doesn't that surprise me...
¿He isn't black? Do you feel being black is inferior, that you aren't allowed to call somebody black? What characteristics are you allowed to mention about somebody? Man, did I call it right that you would still say Aragones actually said that or what. ¿Is it irony you have called Henry 'black shít' more times in your posts than Aragones did on that training field, or would that be called something else?
So in your world it is acceptable to differentiate someone by the colour of their skin? I haven't called Henry anything like that on here - do you understand the use of quotation marks and what they mean? Strange - you have to be just about the last person on these boards who still denies Aragones says that. The Spanish press admit it, spaniards on these boards admit it, FIFA are investigating it. For god's sake, Spanish posters on these boards have stated that the transcript initially presented in the Spanish press was false and his true words could be clearly heard on the footage - and yes, he did refer to Henry as a "black sh!t". Why do you continue to deny this? ps - great game tonight... good to see the best team in Spain win so easily.....
If somebody is black I wouldn't have a problem saying he was. Or even, god forbid, if that person was white ("ooooh! aaaah! the horror!") Apparently you have some sort of issues to sort, that this isn't allowed in your mind. You know, if you yourself don't even find your messages worthwhile that you wouldn't even know the difference between me quoting you or somebody else's text, why should other people? I'm wondering if that was a rhetorical question....there's a very good chance it is. We're trying to go as low as Manchester is in their league, but it's hard being THAT craptacular man. Please, too easy.
I'm guessing you were in Madrid on Tuesday and Wednesday night - somewhere in the South Stand with the other Ultras. How does it feel to be famous? Good answer from wacko world. Are you really that stupid that you didn't understand what I was saying. Now that was a rhetorical question (in case you hadn't noticed) Seeing as you have already proven you don't have a clue where Man U are in the league I'll just sit here and laugh at you and your continued ignorance. Strange how you neglected to respond to the part about your delusions on what Aragones said - although bearing in mind your inability to find anything wrong with differentiating someone by the colour of their skin I'm not that surprised... You're right - you really are too easy.
Seriously, the fact that you would equate that with if you call somebody black or white, says more about you. I'm not even trying to be smartassed here: seek help. Seek help as well with making better witty responses after you respond to something that wasn't directed at you, and are trying to hide it with what i'm guessing is supposed to be something 'funny'. Yes, because Manchester aren't low in their league at all. They're actually right where they deserve to be. Hey, it's a good thing that you are aware how bad your team is. Kudos.
Clanblue <-------wondering if this thread has run it's course Thread closure is coming.... Closing arguments will be heard
So, inserting the differentiator "black" in front of an insulting term should not be viewed as racist? You're as bad as Aragones is. I suppose you've got black friends as well..... Coming from someone who feels compelled to insert a smilie after every other sentence just to make sure everyone knows you've attempted to make a joke - I know just how substance I should apply to your critique.... I'm guessing you're a fan of Andrew Dice Clay as well - it would fit pretty well.... My team is good enough to beat one title challenger and lose a close game by a single goal to the other. How about you? What's that? You got your arses handed to you on a plate and were made to look like a 2nd division side tonight?
Om my God, you just 'differentiated' a segment of my friends. You racist! Yes, that's how moronic your arguments are. And actually I can do better than Aragones, my best friend is black (oops! now I'm a racist as well ) I don't only use smilies after I attempt to make a joke, I use them when I'm sad as well. And your witty reparté is definitely a sad sight to behold Sad excuses when my team is currently on a champion's league spot, and yours is on a UEFA Cup one. Hey, did I say 'sad'? That calls for a Goddammit, take away my fun why don't you. I would use another sad smiley, but I think I've reached the post limit.
You don't get irony do you? Surely it wasn't that difficult was it? Of course he is.... (yup - there goes the smilie again) And so you prove my point. Strange - I thought qualifying spots were determined at the end of a season and not a third of the way through. Good to see you settling for another mediocre season for Real already though - looks like you'll have to get used to it for a while. And that doesn't tell you something?
So what you're saying it's 'ok' to make racist remarks, just as long as you use it as irony? That makes total sense. ¿Are you saying my black friend is white? Help me out now, is that more, or less racist than calling somebody who is black, black? Your point was that I only used smilies after attempted jokes, I used it when my feelings were blue and down ¿How does that prove your 'point'? ¿Do your 'points' always dramatically change mid-discussion? Said the guy who implied Madrid were out of the title race because of a loss on their 12th playing day. What do you know, your 'points' do change on a whim. Smiley time Yes! That there should be no limit in the usage of smilies. I'm going to make a petition and send it to Huss, of course I can count on you as the first person to sign it.
Oscar, your persistence is admirable but it really is time to know when you're beaten. Even your own government are investigating Aragones now - although for his remarks about the British colonies rather than his comments about Henry: http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1356216,00.html In all seriousness, there's a time and a place to try and play clever semantic games and this isn't really one of them. You're not doing yourself any favours by carrying on.
In the interests of fairness, here are a couple of articles which say we still have a long way to go in England as well: http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1356227,00.html http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1356226,00.html
And Oscar - here is a piece by Guillem Balague in which he quotes Aragones as saying: "Tell the ************ black one that you are better!" http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1356228,00.html That article also says there is an element of hypocrisy in the English media's reaction.
Aragonés should have been adviced after the Henry incident by the RFEF, so what happened with the reporters was responsibility of RFEF as well.
I didn't know I was playing semantic games when people say Aragones made racist remarks, called Henry a 'nígger' and/or called Henry a 'black shít', and me saying that simply isn't true. I thought it was just me being right, and those people being wrong. But then I would rather play games than be right, so it's all good. Nobody beats me at monopoly. See, now if I hadn't seen the actual video, or more handy for a messageboard, have a link with what Aragones actually said in Spanish HERE (it's in the first paragraph) I would be convinced by your link as well. Once again, I'm not saying what Aragones said isn't offensive (I would have more problems with him saying "I shít on your mother" than calling Henry -the direct translation - a "black man made out of trash", but hey, maybe that's just me) I'm just saying it isn't racist. Moreso when you take into account that the "..... de míerda" is a commonly used couple of words in Spain.
Yawn! You win; he is not racist. Monkey chanting is not racist as well - just a bit of fun. The only thing that is really racist is if one is lynched.
Finally somebody who sees the light Well, if you say so, I don't really agree though. Actually that would be more violent than racist, you don't need to have racist reasons to kill someone by hanging them on a rope you know. Yay me!