I'm not justifying what the Spanish fans did to the black England players, but let's face it England fans aren't exactly known for being ALTAR BOYS. So for those of u coming on here and ranting about the incident take a good look at the England fans before criticizing others. I'M NOT CONDONING WHAT THE SPANISH FANS DID! That's my 2 cents.
Thanks for addressing that. I was going to say the same thing. Having said that, Aragones did a really good job trying to capture the spirit of our wondeful English epiteth. But that's the great thing about Spanish. Such a colorful language. Very interesting that he didn't insult him for being French when Aragones was trying to "inspire" but I digress...
Oscar, you seem to have a different understanding of what Aragones was quoted as saying. Maybe you know something that we don't. My understanding is that his comment can be verified and that he did offer a somewhat feeble apology. If we are mistaken, then please educate us so that we can dispell this myth. I would not want to stain the man's reputation nor would I want anyone else to do so. It would be appreciated. Thanks. By the way--the relevance of the request is that it does relate to the general theme of the thread--the climate of (alledged) racism in Spanish football.
Well stated. It was disgraceful and needs to be eliminated. So it should be addressed. But let's be fair here. EVERY COUNTRY has examples of similar disgraceful behavior. That doesn't make it right. All I'm saying is let's not pretend that anyone is living in a "perfect" country because--shocker--they don't exist. Where I disagree with our friend's post is that just because every country has some dispicable citizens with dispicable behavior, I still have the right to criticize it and call it for what I feel that it is. That's my two cents.
Nobody is standing up for these moronic Spaniards. This is a minor group of idiotic people who wish to spew their ignorant views on the pitch. GET OVER IT!!!!!!! People are acting like this is the first time anyone has ever been racist towards another person. This will be old news in a week. Also, mind you, this was just a friendly. The game had to significant point at all. England needs to worry more about is horrific play and its "racist abuse." Also, USA played Mexico earlier in the year in a bid for the olympics. The dirty mexicans rained down "OSAMA, OSAMA" on to the pitch and no one even noticed here in the US. So my point is, would you rather be made fun of because of your ethnicity or have a group of fans make fun of 3000 people dying. Just let it be known that there has been worst in the past and there will be worse in the future
Also wouldn't it spur on the English players to play better???So that they can shove it in the crowds face?I really don't think it would've affected their player for the worse anyway.
I don't have a different understanding, I understand Spanish and the phrases that are commonly used in the language, so that would make me have the only true understanding of what he said. Well, unless I lie of course, but why do that when the truth works just as well in this case LINK The fact that some people are still coming with that he said 'nígger' already says enough on what they want to believe.
You do realise that Australia is one of the most racist countries in the world dont you?? you do realise what goes on over there with the indiginouse poulation dont you?? you do come from Australia dont you??? I made the post in jest but you called me a racist. You understand me having a problem with Germany....ahhh, so if I`m racist then so are you! Or are you just calling me racist because I made a jibe against your own country! Good old Australia eh, kick the blacks out and bring the sheep in!!
Oscar, my friend, I speak Spanish as well and understand many of the various regionalisms. Like I said and I think that maybe you said on the other thread (thanks for the link), it is interesting that he didn't say "ese frances..." Not that that would have been ok. It wouldn't have touched so many nerves as the use of "negro", I think most of us can agree on that. The intent is what has been questioned and debated. I'm not sure that anyone will ever be able to say for sure. Henry is Black and he is French. But Aragones chose to mention the first. Aragones made a private comment that became public. It may reveal some ugly underlying sentiments. Or it may have been a comment that was not as venomous as many have interpreted it. When you lead a national side, you must always assume that there is microphone on unless you are in a family setting. Aragones has brought this scrutiny on himself. I think that the dialogue is good. The bigger issue is what can be done to improve the situation of racism in football, not just in Spain but everywhere. At least this is bringing to light some of the problems that have been brewing in Spain both in the stadiums and in everyday life for some people.
Can we try to discuss things without putting each other down? Every country has some shame... Maybe we should avoid starting a roll call of everyone's dirty laundry. Let's try to exchange ideas and opinions and not insults. If anyone ever sees me losing my head on a thread, please do me a favor by helping me to see that I am becoming too confrontational, too (it's happened to me before, I'm not saying that I am better than anyone else). Like I said before, there are NO perfect countries... When someone finds one, please let me know so that I can emigrate there. Let's try to avoid generalizations based on ethnicity/nationality, ok?
GET OVER IT!!!.........Why? We shouldent get over racism we should face it and get rid of it shouldent we? We should bring it out in the open and make more people aware of it. Perhaps if we do face up to it and take responsability then we can actualy cut it down. `England need to worry more about its horrific play and its "racist abuse". We would worry about our horrific display if it happens too often...thank god it doesent happen that often. Plus we do worry about our racist abuse thats why we are actualy doing something about it. Thats why we are world leaders in trying to kick racism out of sport. By the way that last bit about `OSAMA OSAMA` being chanted and no one raising a hair about it...no way do I belive you. Whoever was American there would be up in arms about it. Unless you mean 3 Mexican people in the stands started saying it for a couple of seconds, then I would belive you.
Regarding the OSAMA chants you are correct. Go look at the archives on the USA National Team threads on this board and you will see just how much notice was taken over those chants. That guy doesn't have a clue what he is on about and appears to be shifting the finger of blame onto others rather than accepting the fact there is a problem with his team. This sadly appears to be a far too common attitude amongst not only a number of Spanish supporters on these boards but, more importantly, also with the governing bodies in Spain.
Re: Spanish Fans last night - EXACT WORDS?? The Coach - So - Just what exactly did Aragonés (anybody who names himself after a Tolkien character has gotta be wierd) say? - The Spanish word "Negro" for BLACK or the English racial word "n1gger" (which is the racial epithet derived from "Negro"? - While calling anybody a "white sh1t" or a "black sh1t" is not exactly racist, its pretty stupid - Especially for a National Team Coach - And its going up and sitting on the fence of racism while claiming you're not on the other side - And why in the world was he talking about a French player when Spain was playing England?? - The Fans - And just exactly were the chants coming from the fans? - Not just a handful - But the chants anyone could easily hear throughout the stadium The English Team - by all accounts (even British), the English team proved the adage about Soccer and Rugby: "Rugby's a game for Hooligans played by Gentlemen, while Soccer is a game for Gentlemen played by Hooligans" The Game - uhh - I guess England lost - "All United Against Racism" - hmm - seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle
How do you know what goes on with the Aboriginal people??Maybe if they actually worked hard and tried to earn a living instead of busking on the street they could get somewhere.
You are always going to find some idiots. Continential Europe (other than France) is only now having to deal with racial diversity. It will take time. We in the US have had racial and other minorities forever and we are still struggling with how to deal with it. So do not condemn the entire country because of some idiots.
This really is it in a nutshell. This isn’t something that can be laughed off flippantly. There is obviously a serious problem with racism in Spanish football. The responses here seem to be of the “well, it isn’t so bad a term (black sh1t)…it is not really a racist term”, etc. Well BLACK SH1T is a racist term. The problem in Spain seems to be that of awareness, they (the coach, the Spanish FA, the Spanish media) do not feel they have done anything wrong really. There is no remorse on their part. It is merely “one of those things”. Well, it isn’t one of those things it is RACISM pure and simple and there are no excuses for it. The fact of the matter is that the coach of Spain is able to get away with being a racist. Again, “BLACK SH1T” is a RACIST term. If the manager of the US national team or England or any other country were to use that racist term they would be out of a job right now. The real problem is that it appears that in Spain from the top down racism is just one of those things and it is clearly ok to be a “little” racist now and then. Monkey chants are RACIST abuse and the problem is serious and the real shock is that the Spanish authorities must have been fully aware that it was happening and did nothing about it. The response from Spain so far has been incredibly complacent. One thing to come out of the disgraceful scenes at the Bernabéu is that the Spanish bid to host the 2012 Olympic games should now become an impossibility. Having called for a games embracing diverse cultures, the International Olympic Committee can hardly stage the greatest show on earth in front of sports fans who welcome their foreign competitors with racist abuse.
Whether or not the Spaniards are in denial of the racial problems in there country can be debated. Most people like to think of themselves as "good", "civilized", "sophisticated", etc. These events will result in some sort of dialogue. Many Spaniards and officials will try to minimize or downplay the events (it was quite hilarious to see the Spanish FA blame the English for the abuse though, still can't figure that one out but hey...). They will note that they hosted the summer Olympics in Barcelona in '92. Economics will require them to attempt to further address the issue. That will be greater than any "moral" pressure. It almost always is. For whatever it's worth, my experience is that many Spaniards reject the idea that they even have a problem with racism as a country. Which in itself is a bit humorous because like I said previously, racism is a global issue. They will tell you that it simply doesn't exist and look at you like you just arrived from Mars or are on drugs if you even suggest that it exists in Spain. This is another ugly incident (but not the first, by any means) but it is a chance to examine the matter. Some good can come of this as ugly as it was.
You mean apart from having their lands taken from them, treated like 2nd class citizens, corraled into run-down estates, abused at every turn etc. How about the treatment towards the Asians (vietnamese, koreans etc)? They sure get a good deal in Oz. I also seem to remember a particularly vicious female politician running for power on a message of racism only a year or two ago. My brother lived in Sydney for four years and has told me on many, many occasions how unpleasant the attitudes are to non-whites from a large number of the population. Basically, you're talking out of your arse
The racist abuse hurled at England's black players in Wednesday's 1-0 defeat to Spain barely got a mention in Thursday's Spanish press. Still in denial at the point I guess. But in marked contrast, the issue is all over Friday's papers. So here we go: SPORTS PAPER MARCA: In its editorial, the paper asks: "Are we really racist? If we're not, why did so many of us stand idly by while people were making monkey chants towards black England players?" EL PAIS: It calls for Aragones to apologise immediately and stop trying to blame some kind of English press conspiracy. It also carries a letter from a Spaniard living in the north-east of England who said that when he watched the game, he was ashamed to be Spanish. SPORTS DAILY AS: Columnist Alfredo Relano says that while Aragones has not helped himself, the Spanish FA was more to blame for not providing its coach with better advice and support - "He is a football coach, only that." And he adds: "Madrid's 2012 bid is wobbling."
El Pais is a very good newspaper, something that's strangely missing in the UK. The best ones I've read (and still read) here are the Guardian and the Independent, and neither of them is very good. Full of Inselaffen gossip, really.