Could it be that maybe American players just aren't good enough to get into the first teams of many European teams and stay there? No, silly me, what am I thinking?. The only reason they're not first team regulars is because they're Americans and those evil euro-snob coaches don't want Americans playing in their teams!!
This stuff about Donovan getting discriminated against is baloney. Donovan, like Taylor Twellman, didn't get playing time for one simple reason: Germans are averse to playing young players. Look at the German national team, how many young players do you see? All I can think of is Sebastian Diesler. To the extent that players are hurt because they are American, I think it has to do with finding a team to play for. If you're a manager, and new players are constantly being offered to you to look at on trial, you don't have time to look at every one of them. If I'm offered two players, and one is from Ghana and the other from the US, I'm probably going to look at the one from Ghana because I associate it with a higher standard of soccer. Same thing if I was a basketball coach, would you spend more time looking at a player from NYC or Luxembourg? Given the US performance in the 98 WC can you really blame this attitude? However, as the fortunes of US soccer continue to improve, so too will the prospects for young Americans trying out for clubs overseas. In the end coaches just want to win and want the players who can make that happen, regardless of where they are from.
Agree 100%.. I have heard this "prejudice" theory regarding americans from americans and being an american, I dont agree with it... Coaches want to win, and will field the best teams... The only time I can imagine the earlier situation existing is if a player didnt "fit into the current system" or "fomation" or if player didnt get along with the coach/and or teamates... (i.e. robbie keane for ireland) I think that it is a simple case of american players being as good as many of the foreign players, but when all is said an done it is easier to scout, sign, and use somene who is familiar with being european and playing in a eurpean setting.. Until we have standout players (we do in the making, beasley, donovan) that can prove they BELONG in the starting lineup, then it will be a problem.
Thanks for all the responses. Unfortunately, I think the topic I was trying to raise (not particularly a point I was trying to make) became a little twisted. I attempted (perhaps poorly) to isolate the attitude of those abroad toward American players, and how it might change in the future. Seeing as how what I intended was the opinion of a group of people (soccer players/managers/fans in Europe), I still hold to the sociological term. I did not in anyway intend to debate the merits of American players, whether players should go abroad or not, any favoritism towards players in Europe, the US or other countries, or how US players would feel playing abroad (which is the physicological aspect.) I'll happily discuss these all, but for now, I want to focus on the attitude abroad. Again, the question I'm asking is: what needs to happen before the US is accepted as a respectable soccer nation abroad? ****************** To touch upon some side points that emerged from my original post: If you're good enough, you're good enough. It dosen't matter where you come from, how old you are, or what colour your skin is. A coach will always try to put his best eleven players on the pitch. -I totally agree. That's why players like Harkes, Ramos and Reyna eventually broke through- they were quality players. In addition, in instances such as Friedel not starting at Liverpool, it may have been a case of foreign limit on the field; the fact that he was an American foreigner was just coincidental. In the past, US players have been out of their element abroad (see Lalas with Padova, Jones with Coventry, etc.) However, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had MLS never started, and the '94 team was left to fight for playing time abroad. While Americans playing Europe has its positive sides, I'm not all that convinced that "acceptance" by Europe should matter to us all that much. -This is a great side issue, and one that I tried to omit for the sake of focus on the attitude abroad (which apparently failed.) I can see both sides of this issue, and would happily debate this in another thread. When American players are good enough to play at the highest levels in the best leagues, the problem will take care of itself. -True, but I'm curious as to how we get there. I think that the model in Germany is right (even if Germany is not the right place for many Amis)... we had players in the late 80's and early 90's who did pretty well and now there are more Amis playing in the various divisions there than in any other major soccer nation... progress will come slowly and no American is going to be given a spot (or even a break) without proving worthy (i.e., clearly better than local options) -Absolutely. It seems that Germany is the best option of the big four for an American playing abroad (exclude the Donovan situation for now, which is a whole separate entity.) Even still, we all remember the reports from the German papers before the game essentially guaranteed victory. hasan salihamidzic is from bosina-herzgovina and he plays for bayern munich in the german bundesliga so if a guy from bosina herzegovina can get in to one of the top leagues in europe and an american cant that has to make you think maybe there not good enough to get in. -This is along the lines of what I was saying earlier. Despite Salihamidzic playing for one of the top ten teams in the world, I doubt many people would rate Bosnia too high among national teams. ********************* Considering everything, here's another question: how much will the recent World Cup run affect the attitude abroad towards the US for short term and long term?
What?! Politics in sports? You've got to be kidding me. I thought that went out with the 1980 Olympics.
I think to truly test this theory/dilemma, you need to go to the extremes. Americans have done okay abroad... but they most certainly are not like the Brazilians, Germans, Italians or English. Let's take a look at places like India, Egypt, Venezuela, etc. There are certainly football players there, but how do they fare in foreign leagues? Unless they ARE the reincarnation of Pele or Maradona, there is no way in hell they will ever see time for AS Roma in the Champions League Final, or even for Olympique Marseille in a French Ligue 1 match. The national football program is not strong, and thus, the vast majority players suffer from this. Look at the current national squads for those mentioned teams. Anyone you know? Any of them playing for a top-flight team in Europe? And if so, any of them getting consistent playing time? My point is that the US programs are getting better. It's not exactly fair to say that Americans are getting discriminated against, because, in the football reality, all non-Germans/Brazilians/Spaniards/Argentines/Italians do get discriminated in relation to their playing time and participation with a foreign club, especially in Europe. I can see how you would wish to implememt some kind of program to see that American succeed abroad... but the fact of the matter is that every coach will always want to out his best 4 defenders, 4 midfielders, and 2 forwards out on the pitch. A team could have 10 midfielders who are all better than the rest of the team (gk's, defs and fw's), but you can' play that way. It's also about a system, cohesion and committment.
Win the World Cup on European soil. Regardless, they'll make BS excuses if we ever won, so they wouldn't accept it anyway.
Egypt is a poor example to include in my opinion. They are one of the strongest teams in Africa and have their share of high profile players. Mohamed Zidan (Werder Bremen) and Mido (Tottenham) come to mind, and I'm sure there are others if looked at closely. Mido was a $7.6 million transfer from AS Roma by the way.
Here's a definition. 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of sociology and its methodology. 2. dealing with social questions or problems, esp. focusing on cultural and environmental factors rather than on psychological or personal characteristics: a sociological approach to art. 3. organized into a society; social. Still not really sure how what your talking about ties into this. And really aren't you talking about US players in general and not specificly MLS players. I think I understand where your trying to go, just don't see the tie in to Sociological. Your overall point is that it's perceived that US players have a harder time not only getting on teams in Europe, but then playing (and that this perception is unjust). Your solution is to get more players on lower teams in the top leagues to refute this bias and then move to better teams. But your solution doesn't really address the govermental / trade restrictions that need to be overcome or the fact that there is a limited amount of national team players that could fill these types of positions. Also, isn't having players play in countries with less restrictions a way to do what your wanting to do? Prime example, Gooch, playing in Belgium, improving and having offers from better leagues.