Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer Researching my post history huh? One thing I'm not worried about is the state of the SLU program.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer OK. But one final thing I'll add, that unfortunately gives credence to Sandon's argument, is the Albyn Jones rating (www.soccerratings.com) back to 1995. According to this system, SLU has had the following year end finishes. 2001- 4 2000 -14 1999 - 5 1998 - 14 1997 - 13 1996 - 64 1995 - 23 Average - 19.57 (say 20) Pretty hard to make any objective case that SLU has been a top 4-5 program over the past 10 years using a power rating system.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer What???!! You are now probably arguing against yourself. Throw out the 1996 season which was riddled by injury and severe team turmoil and is a complete SLU season anomoly. The 1997 team went to the final 4 for chrisakes and this guy gives SLU a ranking of 13 for the 1997 final four season?? (he must have been hittin the crack pipe pretty hard) That being said go ahead and look up other teams over this seven year period and throw out their best and worst seasons and I don't think you will find more than 7 teams with a better ranking. As a matter of fact over the last 5 seasons from 1997 through 2001 the Saint Louis rankings are as follows, 2001- 4 2000 -14 1999 - 5 1998 - 14 1997 - 13 1997 we had a final 4 team ranked 13th! In the last 5 years are average seasonal ranking is 10th in the country! That's right Number 10 in the land. Now I'm not a mathematical genius are anything remotely close to one but from 1997 through 2001 taking into consideration a #13 ranking for a Final 4 team in 1997 the overall SLU ranking is pretty tall cotton indeed wouldn't you agree?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer Sorry, but it's tough to get more objective than wins and losses against other ranked teams, even final 4's notwithstanding. Still doesn't look like top 4-5 even getting rid of the 63.
ok, this thread wasn't really started to argue about SLU's place in college soccer. While the posts have been informative on both sides, no one's going to agree to much no matter how much people throw out in statistics, theories, or other information. But what else is there to talk about? Not much really since the season has yet to start although SLU does have its first exhibition this Sunday. So in the interest of moving on, lets lay to rest all of this discussion on elite teams and SLU. SLU is an elite team period. Also when you post a reply, if you're message is as long or longer than the super long message that riled you up, don't copy in the whole damn message. Just reference it. Otherwise, this has been an enjoyable thread to read. Glad to see some interest out there in SLU soccer. Soccertom, do you think they will finally get rid of the cheerleaders at the home games? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have to witness each time I go to Hermann for a game.
In 3-5 years, SLU will be back up at the top because Donigan is an oustanding coach, but I believe he needs to improve his recruiting a bit.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer Hey Dsocc, Here is a selection of some recent teams last 5 years cumulative Albyn season ending power ratings. I don't think your argument is going to hold up to scrutiny. We could use the last 22 years of Soccer America season ending rankings. IU Cumulative ranking of 2.6 2001- 6 2000- 4 1999- 1 1998- 1 1997- 1 UCLA Cumulative ranking of 6 2001- 10 2000- 13 1999- 2 1998- 3 1997- 2 SMU Cumulative ranking of 6.8 2001- 2 2000- 7 1999- 21 1998- 11 1997- 5 Please note: Saint Louis U defeated SMU this year in the quarterfinals to go to the Final 4 and ranked 13 in the seasonal power ratings for 1997?? Virginia Cumulative ranking of 8 2001- 5 2000- 12 1999- 13 1998- 6 1997- 4 Saint Louis U Cumulative ranking of 10 2001- 4 2000- 14 1999- 5 1998- 14 1997- 13 (A Final 4 Team ranked 13th) Stanford Cumulative ranking of 10.2 2001- 1 2000- 3 1999- 17 1998- 7 1997- 23 Clemson Cumulative ranking of 11.2 2001- 7 2000- 10 1999- 19 1998- 2 1997- 18 Creighton Cumulative ranking of 13.6 2001- 25 2000- 5 1999- 21 1998- 10 1997- 7 St. John's Cumulative ranking of 13.8 2001- 8 2000- 16 1999- 24 1998- 13 1997- 8 Maryland Cumulative ranking of 14.4 2001- 22 2000- 25 1999- 10 1998- 9 1997- 6 South Carolina Cumulative ranking of 15.4 2001- 12 2000- 19 1999- 26 1998- 8 1997- 12 UCONN Cumulative ranking of 17.4 2001- 11 2000- 2 1999- 6 1998- 18 1997- 50 North Carolina Cumulative ranking of 25.4 2001- 3 2000- 1 1999- 18 1998- 36 1997- 69 Very interesting isn't it? So far Saint Louis U ranks 5th!
SLU The city of St. Louis produces very good players. Many of them go on to SLU. But these days good players come from everywhere in the USA (Louisiana, Nebraska, Maine, Arizona, etc.) not just St. Louis or other traditional soccer hotbeds. The increased quantity of competent players around the country combined with the limited 9.9 scholarships has raised the overall play in the college game while also creating relative parity compared to the other college sports. In today's college soccer, the #1 team in the country will play a very close game with the #50 ranked team in the country. That would not have been the case 10-15 years ago. Is SLU a top 5 program? Well that depends on your definition. If your definition factors in a program's history, recent success on the field, the use of traditional college age players (U23), the use of local players, pride, facilities, attendace, and advancing players to professional soccer, then SLU's program has very few (if any) equals. Hatch
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer Tom, Well, you know what they say, figures don't lie but liars figure. By my math, if you're looking at the strength of these programs over the last 5 years using the Jones ratings, the number of times that each team has been a top 10 rated power looks significantly different than you propose. IU - 5 UCLA - 4 SMU - 3 UVA - 3 Stanford - 3 Clemson - 3 Creighton - 3 SLU - 2 SJU - 2 Maryland - 2 UConn - 2 South Carolina - 1 The numbers speak for themselves. SLU has been no better 8 over the past 5 seasons, and perhaps no better than 11th, especially given the UConn's national championship season. Sandon's still correct. When someone asks who the top 4-5 teams are, SLU is not in the mix.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SLU Soccer Are you calling me a liar? I was simply using your Albyn ratings and coming up with accurate numbers that refute your own ignorant claim. I guess it really hurts when people use your own logic against you doesn't it? Now how and where exactly am I "lying" I say you are a knucklehead. Hey I'm using your Albyn season ending power ratings based on a "cumulative average" compiled by these teams over the most recent 5 seasons. SLU Ranks 5TH! You can continue to "move the goalposts" all you want in terms of switching the numbers around in a pitiful attempt to fit your argument. I also notice how you basically ignored all the points I made regarding the SLU programs overall excellency over a 42 year run of unparreled success. Make no mistake about it no one is more acutely aware than I am of SLU's past inability to bring home and add to their alltime record 10 NCAA Soccer Championships and win their elusive 11th title. I will continue to expect the best and root SLU on each and every game until they do win that 11th Champiionship! That being said lets give credit where credit is due and that is simply SLU is among the elite teams of NCAA soccer during any periord of time you care to measure. Year in and year out SLU is in the hunt for the title and what more can you ask and hope for as a fan. Suffice it to say any objective anaysis over the last 42 years or last 20 years or the last 5 years will always list Saint Louis University among the elite powers of NCAA soccer. Any other conclusion will only demonstrate hard headedness or pure ignorance. Following your logic we could take a look at the Saint Louis Cardinal Baseball Team and ignore their storied history ranking as the # 2 all-time greatest franchise in the history of Major League Baseball behind only the NY Yankees just because the Cardinals haven't won a World Series Title since 1982! A teams history is the very fabric that binds fans to the team and to a sport and I for one will not allow any one on these boards to sully the reputation and name of the greatest team in the history of US college soccer.
Sorry Tom, There's just no objective way to classify SLU as a top 4-5 rated (or ranked) team in recent history.
Some people who watch the first few games at SLU may be wary of Kevin Wickart, you guys will be very happy to have him when the important games come around. Don't believe what you read about him, he's a very good player and a good guy.