Should the catholic church change & listen to the voice of the people?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DJPoopypants, Jun 28, 2005.

Page 1 of 7
  1. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    bottom of a bottle of scotch
    #1 DJPoopypants, Jun 28, 2005
    I just love hearing the arguments over whether the catholic church should change its stances on homosexuality, abortion, stem cell research, etc - just to bring it back into touch with what people want.

    I actually agree with the church - they feel that they know best, and we have no right to make them change.

    But then they go pull a stunt like this.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1516576,00.html

    So church doctrine is always right. Except when the people of the world want to rush to canonise a dead pope. Then the church listens to popular opinion.

    Sigh. Look, Mr Catholic Church. You've been around for almost 2000 years. old JP can wait an extra 5, can't he? Or are the end-days that close?
     
  2. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    #2 DynamoKiev_USA, Jun 28, 2005
    The whole sainthood thing in CC is a bit strange, anyone know its origins?
     
  3. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3 Matt in the Hat, Jun 28, 2005
    Yeah, it began with some dude dying on a cross
     
  4. servotron

    servotron New Member

    Mar 4, 2004
    St Paul, MN
    #4 servotron, Jun 28, 2005
    Of course they should change with the people. It was invented by people, why not keep listening to them?
     
  5. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5 IntheNet, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    No.
     
  6. servotron

    servotron New Member

    Mar 4, 2004
    St Paul, MN
    #6 servotron, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    My serious, real question to you then (as the only Catholic I know of on this board) :

    When in history should the Catholic church have stopped changing?
     
  7. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    #7 Norsk Troll, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    I'm in full agreement with ITN. The Catholic Church should not change with the whims of its congregation.

    It should instead fade away as the irrelevancy it is.
     
  8. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    #8 MikeLastort2, Jun 28, 2005
  9. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    #9 DynamoKiev_USA, Jun 28, 2005
    Wrong answer! 20 hail maries on your ass, boy!
     
  10. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    bottom of a bottle of scotch
    #10 DJPoopypants, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    So JP's canonization should wait 5 years?
     
  11. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    #11 DynamoKiev_USA, Jun 28, 2005
  12. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #12 IntheNet, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    Well servotron.... I don't read this "change" of which you speak.... define it? Certainly after Vatican II there was "change" in the Church; the language of the Mass, certain dogmatic rites, and other Catholic leadership policies were affected, but many things continued on as before... The Order of the Mass is still the same the world over... in fact, one can visit a Church in Bolivia or one in Canada and the Mass is one and the same for all parishioners... the Vatican is still the Vatican, and Priests, Brothers, and Nuns all still teach the same lessons... what change?

    Which is why I answered "no" above... Why change?

    Pope John-Paul II, soon to be Saint John Paul, stewarded the Church through almost 30 years of constantcy and stability... again...why change?
     
  13. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    #13 MikeLastort2, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    I was raised Roman Catholic, and even though I "lost my faith" nearly 25 years ago, I think I can answer this.

    The Catholic Church can never stop changing. If the church is to remain a viable religion, it has to change as society changes.

    But I don't think there's any need to change how long after death a person can become a saint.
     
  14. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    #14 fiddlestick, Jun 28, 2005
    Sainthood is like a Hall of Fame for Catholics. Waiving a waiting period for canonization is not the same as altering its stance on a moral issue because society has taken a more permissive view of behavior the Chuch has long held is immoral.
     
  15. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #15 Barbara, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change


    ITN isn't really a Catholic.
     
  16. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #16 IntheNet, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    BarbyDoll isn't really a woman....
     
  17. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    #17 DynamoKiev_USA, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    And I agree with ITN, I don't see why the church should change with the wind of times. Now I think they're policies on contraception are very wrong, and they need to rethink the pros and cons, but this has nothing to do with changing with the times or listening to the voice of the people.
     
  18. X X I

    X X I Red Card

    Apr 9, 2004
    #18 X X I, Jun 28, 2005
    Of course the Church has to change. Women should be allowed to join the priesthood, people of the same-sex should be allowed to be married in a church, etc., the list goes on and on. There are so many things wrong with the Church, it's pathetic.

    Oh, and Ratzinger is the anti-Christ, fucking back-stabbing piece of shit.
     
  19. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #19 Riz, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    ITN is the secretly the lovechild of pagan hippies and still remembers when he should celebrate Samhain.

    Anyways.

    As a Catholic, I do believe the Catholic church consistently evolves over time - albeit at a glacial pace, but still evolves. The core tenets upon which we the faithful believe - the Holy Trinity, commitment to social justice, resurrection etc - remain the same.

    To me, it's fine that they waived the 5 years. Go for it.

    I'd rather they considered the canonization of Archbishop Romero, though.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  20. NUFCBayern

    NUFCBayern Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 9, 2004
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    #20 NUFCBayern, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    That's right, she's just a fake who goes around pretending to be a real woman.


    Sweet Moses, this is like frickin' Home Run Derby.
     
  21. X X I

    X X I Red Card

    Apr 9, 2004
    #21 X X I, Jun 28, 2005
    Re: Should the catholic church change

    Agreed; IntheButt probably wouldn't agree with us though.
     
  22. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    bottom of a bottle of scotch
    #22 DJPoopypants, Jun 28, 2005
    I disagree.

    A 5 year waiting period for canonization serves the same purpose as a 48 hour waiting period for a handgun.

    It makes people step back, let emotions run out, and proceed logically. All so that you don't do anything stupid before time and perspective calm the situation.

    5 years is ample time for any shenanigans to pop up, etc. Surely catholics don't want to rush to make JP a saint, and then find out something shameful? Because, y'know, the church is never wrong when it comes to important stuff...you wouldn't want people to grow disillusioned if they find out a saint did something really naughty.

    So its the same as a stance on immorality or whatever. Its saying "we're not to be swayed by the emotions of the moment, the pressures of the world - we will only take action upon thorough and sober reflection of the eternal".
     
  23. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #23 Revolt, Jun 28, 2005
    I'll promise to get off the Catholic Church's back for all the stupid ******** they do, if they start doing one thing:

    Pass out condoms to poor folks.

    That's it, its all I ask. This would do wonders to bring population growth down and slow the spread of STDs.
     
  24. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #24 Riz, Jun 28, 2005
    I wonder moreso sometimes why certain people are stuck in beatified limbo (pun intended) - Blessed Kateri Takekwitha, Father Damien, etc. I mean, they lessened the miracles requriement, so whats' the hold up?

    I know Kateri Takekwitha has been on the Blessed list for at least 10 years and dead for at least 100 if not more, so it's not an issue of emotional knee jerk sainthood happening.
     
  25. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    #25 DynamoKiev_USA, Jun 28, 2005
    why can't UN or doctors sans frontiers or red cross do that?
     
Page 1 of 7

Share This Page