Should Bush be impeached?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Revolt, Jul 6, 2005.

  1. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting article in WashPo from Froomkin:

    There's also a link to this:

    "******** Saddam, we're taking him out."

    George W. Bush, March, 2002. From CNN.com March, 2003.

    Includes an excellent analysis of the run-up the war and Bush's motivations. A most worthwhile read.

    Meanwhile more of Froomkin on Zogby:

     
  2. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course we should impeach him, especially when you consider the standard the GOP set when it went after Clinton for lying about an extra-marital hummer.

    Payback's a bitch.
     
  3. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remind me again, when did Clinton lie about getting a blow job?
     
  4. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    under oath.
     
  5. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks.... perjury, punishable by impeachment.

    If there is undisputable evidence that Bush knew 100% that Iraq did not have any WMD's and created everything as a lie to go to war then I think he should be dealt with. Does that mean impeachment? Well what would they use to impeach him? He didn't lie under oath.
     
  6. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does a law have to be broken for impeachment? Massive incompetence is not enough justification?
     
  7. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    I give you the Carter Administration
     
  8. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Squirrel-face said the same thing last week! And the week before! This is getting old! Nobody lied despite WAPO beating the bush to fan the flames of impeachment! Do you read anything else other than Froomkin Revolt? You really should!

    More spam!

    Revolt=> Try this: Senate Intelligence Committee Report on the
    U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq


    Nobody lied Revolt! No impeachments necessary! Cool your jets!
     
  9. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Who are these people they poll? I could poll people from Boston to see how many people like the Yankees, and use that information to describe the number of Yankee fans in the country. To the non-baseball fans, it wouldn't seem like a big deal, since they might not know about the rivalry.
     
  10. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    Actually, under Article II, Section 4 of the United States Constitution, perjury isn't specifically listed as an impeachable offense.

    That's it. There's a LOT of room for interpretation there.

    Article I, Section 2, Clause 5 gives a fair bit of power to the US House of Representatives to decide what is impeachable.

    Treason and bribery are pretty self-explanatory, but the definition of "other high Crimes and Misdemeanors" isn't all that clear. It's up to the House of Representatives to decide what those would consist of.
     
  11. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    He says more then four out of 10 are against Bush. That leaves what, "less then six" who are in favor of Bush? According to that information, Bush will remain in office, just like Bill did.
     
  12. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but perjury is a crime. It is a punishable crime.
     
  13. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Oh yay! I'd love to have Cheney move up to president!

    Unless that is what moonbats want, impeachment is an empty gesture - a time waster that might sap the energy of the administration and invites retaliation.
     
  14. Magpie Maniac

    Magpie Maniac Member

    Dec 28, 2001
    North Carolina, USA
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    blow job + lied during testimony + zero resulting deaths = impeachment

    war + lied on TV + dead Iraqi civilians + dead American soldiers = free ride

    It's the new neo-con math! :rolleyes:

    Impeach the son of a bitch. Really, Barbara really is a bitch.
     
  15. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    i'm thinkin' they could just do them as a tandem and save time
     
  16. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    I think you'd pretty much have to get Cheney on a two-fer, since he's even more guilty of lying about Iraq than Bush is.

    Ooh, the White House might retaliate against Democrats? Oh, no! Wouldn't want that! They'll do exactly what they can get away with, no more and no less, same as always. Why not draw up articles of impeachment? Why not get that idea out there? Why not make them explain themselves? Why not get every Reep in Congress out there defending the right of the president to lie through his teeth?

    Maybe Dennis Hastert, already the indirect beneficiary of Larry Flynt, will cement his title as the luckiest politician in the universe. It would be a giggle.
     
  17. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    Article VI Clause 2 of the Constitution states:

    (emphasis mine)

    One could argue that Bush violated the Principle VI of the Nuremberg Charter, which is an international treaty to which the US is a signatory.

    Here's the entire text of Principle VI.

    Violation of Paragraph (a) of Principle VI could be argued as a case for impeachment. You could argue that by ignoring international treaties in attacking Iraq, Bush violated a treaty, and that by Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution that treaty is the "supreme Law of the Land."
     
  18. Magpie Maniac

    Magpie Maniac Member

    Dec 28, 2001
    North Carolina, USA
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welcome to the boards. Time will tell about the Bush lies, but the evidence is growing daily.

    Link 1

    Link 2
     
  19. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't get what you're getting at... I've already stated that if it's provable then Bush should pay for it. I'm not defending the guy.
     
  20. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. The DSM was enough to, at a minimum, launch a special prosecutor; at most, articles of impeachment would be drawn up by any statespersons who cared about being told the truth, along with any "opposition," if we had any.
     
  21. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Wow! Those memos are fake?

    In that case it's really strange that Tony Blair hasn't bothered to point that out.
     
  22. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait. I thought everyone gets a thirty-something "youthful indiscretion" mulligan. No?
     
  23. Magpie Maniac

    Magpie Maniac Member

    Dec 28, 2001
    North Carolina, USA
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, chill. Perhaps your first half dozen or so posts should be soccer-related before you start making friends on the politics board. Just a thought.

    And if you really think that professional pollsters don't use commonly accepted polling practices, you're full of crap. While they miss the mark at times, they aren't just talking to kids on the UC Berkeley campus.
     
  24. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    I was just showing one way that you could interpret that Bush committed "high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

    It's a reach, but not that big of one.

    Personally, I'd hate to see an impeachment again. The last thing the country needs is another bout of divisiveness.
     
  25. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Talk about a stroll down memory lane. :D

    Yes, perjury is a crime. Did Clinton commit perjury? Not a slam dunk as it has to be a lie about a material fact. As we all know, Bill slickly chose his words to be technically accurate while clearly trying to mislead. Keep in mind that it was a civil deposition, so this is a very wordy give and take between the examiner and the witness.

    As part of the agreement to sit for the deposition while in office, they did some crazy things like define "sexual relations" beforehand, and in ways that you and I might not agree.

    Second, there is and was an open question as to whether or not those statements were material to the civil case at issue. The examiner could ask Bill if his skin is green, and he could reply "Yes. Yes it is," and not be gulity of perjury because the misstatment would have little to nothing to do with the civil case.

    Finally, and this is a biggie, impeachment is not proper for simply commiting a crime. You strict constitutionalists out there know that it calls for impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors". What is a "high" crime? Does it have to be a "High" misdemeanor, and if yes, what the hell is that? The constitution is silent on that, and there ain't a hell of a lot of precedent to rely on.

    Unfortunately for the current president, his party set the bar pretty low for a definition of what constitutes a "high crime or misdemeanor." Fortunately for the president, impeachment is a highly political process and he enjoys a big edge in the house, so it won't happen without explosive evidence that the republicans can't ignore.

    Seeing as how they can apparently igonre the Downing Street Memo with no consequences, I won't hold my breath.

    To Metro Strikers 10, the poll is astonishing because it is more than 4 in 10 now, and there hasn't been a single congressional hearing in that direction. If we went through the whole process, it might well shift much higher.

    I do not like George Bush. I hope his ultimate reputation goes down the crapper as I believe it will (sorry, but my kids aren't going to Dubya High). I wouldn't mind seeing much of his administration go down in flames for what appears to me to be criminal activity after they are out of office. I believe that Bush intentionally misled the country and "fixed the intelligence around the policy" resulting in the deaths of thousands. I believe at the very LEAST he was criminally negligent in the decisions he has made and in the horrific lack of planning for a war that we started on our own timetable.

    Having said ALL of that, I am not convinced that impeachment would be a good road to go down right now. Take a step back and put yourself in the shoes of our enemies. It would be a sign of defeat to drag our country through this ridiculousness again. Even though he is guilty as sin in my book, the ultimate result wouldn't justify what it would take to get there (I think).

    Perhaps one day, Dubya will rot in hell. I don't know because I don't stand in judgment of others (although I am pretty sure about Cheney :)). He deserves worse than he is getting, but at this point I would spare him simply because it will lead to more damage than is already done.
     

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