Shadows on the field

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by okcomputer, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    Why dont they put the lights on at HDC? When watching the game on television this is the second year in a row that you can't even see the play on half the field due to the shadows. I found it tough to even watch the game from home because of this. You would think they would have learned this from last year. How annoying.
     
  2. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It really was annoying. First match in which I was actually a bit disappointed that both clubs wore their home jerseys. It would have been easier (a little) to watch had one club been wearing white.
     
  3. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    You will never be able to put on enough lights to make a difference. Believe me, there is no way to accomplish this. However, when I watch matches from across the pond the camera operators do have some way of changing how the camera reacts to light and shadow so this isn't as big of a problem. The issue is that American sports crews haven't done enough soccer broadcasts to know how to do this properly.....or they don't care to learn.
     
  4. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) Turning on the lights in the HDC would not drown out the sun. For centuries man has cursed the sun, and its many gifts, and we must shoulder the burden that it won't be going away any time soon. The game was played at 1pm in LA. What were you expecting?

    In watching EPL and NFL games, they change filters mid-shot to increase the light. Watch Fox games in Dallas, it looks absolutely terrible, that's how they handle it. EPL games do the same thing. I don't know what type of camera they use, but they probably have an ND filter on, then they click it off to brighten up the dark areas. Unfortunately, that also blows the sun-lit part of the field completely out. So there isn't a whole lot you can do. If the cameras were on the other side of the stadium, they'd be shooting into the sun, which is worse.

    You can't fix everything for TV.

    re: Texgators post - it has nothing to do with Soccer vs American Sports Media. It looks like Crap at NFL games too. EPL games don't look much better, because they're constantly readjusting, and with the quick motion, things get lost.

    The best you can hope for is a really overcast day, so all of the light is diffuse and even.
     
  5. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
    The lights WERE on. You can see them clearly on in a few of the shots from the telecast.

    The Sun is just a whole lot brighter than the lights.
     
  6. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    From the artist's renderings I've seen, the Frisco stadium won't have much of a roof. That will probably eliminate this problem next year. Next time it's in LA, can someone make sure it's cloudy?
     
  7. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Move the sun.
     
  8. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? If the LA sun was a real soccer fan, the Sun would be there 24 hours a day, like the DC sun.
     
  9. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But since we're striving for more night games, is that really a good thing? :p


    -G
     
  10. fdp

    fdp Red Card

    Oct 24, 2001
    I was at the stadium and can confirm that the lights were on.

    When I saw the shadows, I knew there would be a thread on this topic! :D
     
  11. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In spite of the wishes of some people, you can't fight against-- or beat-- Mother Nature.

    Yet, some people will try as they might. :eek:
     
  12. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Watch closely, they were doing something with the cameras to improve the picture when the ball went into the shadows. You have to watch, but when play goes from shadow into light you can tell they were flipping a switch or something.

    It was ten times better than last year.

    I say ABC did a much much better job this year.
     
  13. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like the shadows. It adds a dimension to the match that I find very enjoyable. I say this, though I may be unwittingly dying of skin cancer...
     
  14. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have an evening final.
     
  15. Chowderhead

    Chowderhead Member

    Aug 3, 1999
    Central Falls, RI
    You want the roof? This is what you get.
     
  16. KoRnNutZ1320

    KoRnNutZ1320 Member

    Oct 15, 2002
    Garden Grove, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you mean in prime time? heh
     
  17. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, crazy, I know.
     
  18. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's right, folks... to get something desireable, you have to give something up. Want to keep the noise in and create a bit of atmosphere? A bit of shadow and sun at twilight ain't gonna kill the mood.

    I would gladly take it.
     
  19. Sean 094

    Sean 094 Member

    Nov 15, 2004
    There isn't one marginal sports fan who flipped the channel to that game who would have stuck with it through the shadow dilemma. I had a headache after watching the game. If MLS wants to attract any more than the hardcore fans for its final, then it should have altered the game time to avoid the LA shadows. I couldn't even tell which individual players had the ball, and sometimes I couldn't even see that someone was making a run, let alone tell who it was. Black vs. blue jerseys was a terrible choice.
    They should have played the game later in the day Saturday or Sunday night. No matter what time the MLS Cup final is played, this time of year it will be competing against something (NFL, college football, NASCAR, golf, NBA).
     
  20. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, it's a wonder that the Dallas Cowboys didn't end up in financial ruin, playing all those afternoon games in a stadium with a roof with a hole in the middle.
     
  21. Sean_94

    Sean_94 Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Different situation. NFL is not MLS. MLS is trying to attract new fans. And like someone said before, NFL TV coverage somehow has got the shadow thing figured out with their cameras. Apparently for whatever reason ABC did not take advantage of whatever technology was needed to produce a quality picture.
    But my original point is, I can't see any new, curious fans sitting through that headache-inducing picture.
     
  22. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    The NFL also you know... has people paying them billions of dollars to broadcast their games, where as MLS has a revenue split, pay as you guy time buy. I imagine that plain fact might have something to do with a 4am EST final. At least I hope it does. I would much prefer an evening final and the HDC certainly looks great at night. However, as someone said before, for whatever reason the 'shadow issue' was 10x better than it was last year.
     
  23. Sean_94

    Sean_94 Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Yes, the NFL is making billions of dollars for TV, because it has much more of a following. That is why I said it's a "different situation." MLS is trying to gain fans; NFL already has them.
    NFL fans will watch through the shadow of a Dallas Cowboys game, not to mention the network would use everything possible to minimize the poor effects. Why didn't ABC use this capability, especially after last year's MLS Cup? If I were MLS, I would complain.
    I have a tape of last year's MLS Cup and I wish I could find it, because I might disagree that the shadow was better this time. I don't recall having a massive headache after watching last year's final. But then again, did last year's teams wear similar colors? MLS might not have controlled the time slot, but blue vs. black was a boneheaded decision that it DID control.
    I'm just thinking about the MLS gaining fans. This is a rare opportunity for our major league on network TV, and it took an effort keep your eyes open. Only hardcore fans would be willing to sit through it.

    Over the years, we soccer fans have heard so much about a USA or MLS or World Cup game competing against NFL, college football, baseball, basketball, NHL, NASCAR, senior golf, bocce ball, a local fund-raising telethon (don't laugh, I've seen it happen!), or whatever. I would hope MLS would have some say over their time slot, and I wish they would have learned from last year. I'm sure ABC wants MLS done by 6 p.m. EST so those stations can show their local news (barring overtime). Heck, we were cheated of Brazil's celebration in the 1994 World Cup final primarily for that reason - the local affiliates had to cut away to local news.
     
  24. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    where the ******** is montgomery burns when you need him???
     
  25. billward

    billward Member

    Oct 22, 2002
    El Cerrito, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There should be a way to fix this with modern technology. Computerized image recognition software can distinguish human faces now; it can certainly recognize the difference between light and dark. Make a filter using a transparent LCD screen that darkens the sunlit areas and control it by a computer. Piece of cake.
     

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