Why is it not surprising that soccer ... err football...err calcio....err fussball fans love to go on about who "deserved" to win. Got news for you -- no matter how much Euro-wuss crying you do -- the team that scores the most goals by the end of the match wins. Germany 3 - Turkey 2. Good night.
Team which actually win, allways deserves to win.... http://vinovo.magnify.net/watch/playlist/CG6LZF55LGZ3K58J Highlights from match Turkey - Germany
It's all good. I wasn't talking about turks. I was talking about the comments from people from other countries in the last thread especially. I think the private message you sent has settled that. As for the game - I just watched the replay with the 25 minutes that were cut off due to feed problems included. So I saw the whole game for the first time. The first half was actually even and both teams had 2 very good chances to score aside from the goals. Turkey had a lot more shots because they shot from everywhere but they were all harmless. Germany got into those good positions but they couldn't shoot or chose to pass to try and find a better position but got nowhere. Overall the first half was even. These reports saying turkey should have scored a couple more are incorrect because they are ignoring germany's 2 good chances. Initially I thought the 2nd half was germany's but it was again even, with maybe turkey with a slight edge. Although the thing is turkey created almost zero chances of any sort until semih senturk scored, which is unlike the first half. Germany had more chances of some sort in this half. So I agree, germany played worse than I initially thought (so it was less than "decent"), but they still coped with turkey's tactics well enough to actually win the game. Credit must go to turkey for playing a big part in germany playing that way. It is encouraging for germany that we still won and I do expect a better display in the final. Oh ok, I understand this bit now. Well as the german team isn't some great team as in the 70s I am happy with the play at the last WC and in the qualification since then. This Euro could have been smoother but still there were 2 good games. As long as we play well and win the final I'll be very happy. It doesn't have to be anything dominant.
The turks definitely played better than Germany! But if always the team, that plays better wins the game, Turkey wouldn´t have been in the semifinal at all! I have a lot of respect for the Turkish team and their performance in this tournament, but don´t tell me, that they lost, because of all the players missing! With these players, this would have been a totally different game...maybe better for Turkey, but maybe Germany would have made a better performance as well! The past told us, that Germany doesn´t "overperform" by winning games, with three or four goals difference. Germany does what is necessary, to win a game...like they did yesterday! That doesn´t mean, that Germany could have switched to a better performance at any time in the game...all I want to say is, that, if Turkey would have played better with all the missing players, Germany might have improved, too!? It wasn´t a coincidence, that Germany scored the 1 - 1 just minutes after the 1 - 0! Just my opinion! Anyhow, Turkey played better, kudos for that, but Germany stood up to Turkey and won, that´s football...
I dont understand whats the problem with some of you.. I read both threads and i came out with this conclusion: 1) we need to be thankful to our "poland" players ==> sure w/e i am not gona even argue about that... and people need to get over the FACT that these "poland" players are, in fact, German. 2) referee was in "our" side... i am still confused how this even possible after Lahm foul (but again sure, w/e i am not gona argue about that, because Germany doesn’t need a penalty kick to win a game ) 3) Germany was "lucky" for the late goal and didnt deserve the win.. (coming from turkey fans, its just make me smiles , specially after watching their last 3 games 4) Turkey played a better football yesterday, and i totally agree about that but they didnt deserve to go through 5) Turkey fans should never feel ashamed about their performance yesterday as they put up a wonderful game! Congrat for Germany and congrat to their young hungry players!
I read different news papers from different countries, and I agree with all of them..."Turkey played better than Germany" only Germans think the opposite. Turkey have showed the world that they are a team with EGGS and they were not afraid of Germany even they did not have all the players. If Russia defeat Spain today, I doubt that Germany will be champion.
A few comments: Turkey v. Greece - Greece won Euro through defensive resolve and determination. One could say the gods were on their side as well , but they had a strategy that recognized their limitations, played to their strength, and got maximum results. It may not have been beautiful to watch, but it was beautiful to see an underdog team claim the prize, and nobody can say they didn't earn it. Even if you don't like defensive football (and a well-played defensive game isn't without merit, as Spain/Italy showed), you have to respect a team that can select that strategy and make it work, because the players know it will be 90+ minutes of physical and mental agony, with no room for mistakes. Turkey, this tournament? Different style, same heart and determination. A more attacking style, so they'll get better reviews than the Greeks did. And, of course, the late comebacks make for great drama and deservedly attract praise. Someone explained earlier the drop-off of Turkey after the 2002 WC, and it makes sense. Based on Fenerbache's performance in the Champions' League, and Turkey's at Euro '08, I believe the Turkish fans' belief that their team is moving up is well-founded. They can also be their own worst enemies, when the results don't meet the expectations (notwithstanding that the expectations may not be realistic...and certainly, they have lots of company in that department, including my country's national team...USA). Germany? Germany did not play their best match today, certainly. What I did NOT see, however, was any sign of panic by the Germans. They came into this match believing that they would win, and didn't fall apart even though Turkey put them on their heels early, and got a late equalizer. The difference here, is that Turkey were in new territory, never having reached the Euro semi-finals before and, by the admission of their own players, having exceeded their expectations. Accordingly, Turkey could have been forgiven for coming out and playing defensively, or without ambition. They did neither, and it caught Germany off-guard. Germany, on the other hand, has a tradition of expectation, not hope, of victory. For the younger fans here, the relative lack of success by Germany over the past decade is something new. I would suggest that fans of Germany were so accustomed to dominance, that anything less than reaching a final represented a huge drop-off (and I've followed the Mannschaft since 1972). To be honest, it was a drop-off...but ONLY by the standards of a Germany or Brazil. Germany went from 1954-1990 and, save for 1958, appeared in EVERY World Cup final hosted in Europe ('54, '66, '74, '82, '90), and have made the final in two more WC hosted outside of Europe ('86, '02). Only twice in that 36-year period did they fail to make the semi-finals. As of this Sunday, they will now have appeared in 6 of the 13 European Championship finals. I've heard a lot about Germany's "drop-off", having gone through the prior two European Championships winless...so what? You can talk about Italy, but tracking back to the post-WWII era, only Brazil is in the same league. There is no shame to Turkey for not winning the semi-final, most expected them to be run off the pitch; neither is there reason to bash the German team...they remained calm...they adjusted strategy and tactics through the tournament as needed...they won...it's what they DO. I must also confess, as I consoled my friend (who was born in Istanbul) after the match...I have been angry at Germany before ('82 over the shameful Austrian episode, and livid at Shumacher), but yesterday was the first time I can remember feeling sad that Germany won. Now, that's a change! Finally, it's a pleasure to read about German and Turkish fans celebrating before and after the match, because that means that football was the big winner yesterday, as it has been throughout Euro '08. That's as it should be, an appreciation for the quality we've witnessed throughout. Cheers.
Are you Spanish or Russian? Otherwise I don´t get, what could make you laugh on Sunday! Anyhow, most Germans I talked to admitted, that Turkey played better! But if you´ve ever watched a football-game before, you should have realized, that not always the better team wins, but the more effective one! Espacially, if you´ve watched Turkey-games during the EURO! Yesterday Germany was more effective (you can see that, if you have a look at the score 3:2)...
To add: 1) I agree. If that's the case, then we also should thank our Brazilian and half- English guy and errr, our lovely Turkish-German Hamit. If you have the jersey on, then every discussion is over. 2) You completely got the referee thing wrong. I think the referee was poor, however to blame it on blind sided is another thing. What drives us crazy is the standard of the cards applied to us since the start of the tournament. Believe me, with the type and number of fouls the German players did not get any card, we would have 4 yellow and 1 red. I mean it. This just means that we were subject to a much worse standard. How can you explain that one player pulls a jersey of an counterattacking player and got away with nothing. 3) On late goal, I have nothing to disagree. Poor Swiss, Czech and Croat prayers haunted us back. (Now you have ours now 4) We played good football, and we did not deserve to be through? How come? If you have self-fulfilling deserving methodology meaning that we did not deserve because we lost, this does not make sense. If we beat you then the headlines would not be "very big surprise, Turks beat German by luck" No sir, we deserved it, however we could not pull through. I also say the reverse. I think Germany played also effectively and to blame them for being succesful is absolutely crazy. However, saying Turkey did not deserve is totally unfair. 5) I think so. It is depressing that I would be relatively happy if we were outplayed. No, we did not. Having said all of these, I am completely happy with the tone of discussion. Sometimes football opens nationalist chant, bad feeling, but Euro 2008 has been absolutely magnificent so far in terms of gentlemenship. I actually believe that this tournament also allowed us to better represent ourselves throughout Europe.
And I am not turkish either. Just love good soccer and hot women from the Euro. Lets see if your team show better soccer on Sunday. The team winner today will be the champion on Sunday. He dicho y punto. [youtube]rVFsvWMILPM[/youtube]
which emotions? do you guys taking some course, education on how to direct discussions to a personal level? "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt use your brain will ya?
Loose end: I'm not saying I agree with this, but I've seen writers say, "Hey, Germany wasn't that good in 2002": and in the final they played Brazil well, Ballack was suspended I believe and it was a close game so this is not new.
Well something is wrong with the general polarisation of yesterdays match. If turkey received three goals then they either didnt perform as superior as some here claim or the germans didnt strike as bad as people try to make us believe. Three tiny opportunities turned into three gaols. What does that say about the defense? The way germany played was terrible, but if the conversion rate of simple opportunities into goals is okay, then this enough to pass. bad match, good match, bad match, so in the final we should play good again. Peace, next game please.