Hunt did not determine the winner or loser yesterday. How the teams played did? Tactically, you can say DC's use of subs caused them to win, and the Charge's inappropriate use was the primary reason not to win. Had DC not gotten the goal, then the Charge ability to add 2 fresh players would have seriously changed the dynamic. The Charge style is possession and using wide play to create chances. After 15 minutes the extreme heat took away most of the wide play, because of the fear of NOT being able to get back to defend. And then the game settled into a tactically slow game where size mattered. By the last 30 minutes players brains were noodles and the simple pass and trap became more problematic. You play the game, you do your best, and you live with the result. You enjoy the good and look towards the future. Clearly Kelly Smith presences adds a talent unparalleled. Pia will go, and perhaps Demko becomes a coach. Perhaps Fitschen tires of administrative duties and wants to coach? Whatever happens, I shall return. And if you read the post in the Land of Red, sometimes more meaningful things exist than winning or losing, sometimes the chance just to win or lose is the story. And that's what it is for me.
Isn't that called passive offsides? It wasn't called because Abby wasn't seeking the ball. And it wasn't played to her. Plus at the tiem of the play she was running to get back on. If Little had turned and played the ball to her then it would have been off.
Really. You gotta be kidding me? Did you see the replay? The ref made the right call. Question what do you conspiracy theorist Charge fans have to say about all those handballs by the Charge that were never called?
Listen you cry baby, I don't deny that superstars at times do get the benefit of the doubt. But I really can't see how you can look at that play and not see the truth. Mia recieved no special treatment on that call. Mia beat Lihong. Lihong felt her only option was to trip Mia. Lihong got scared, she didn't expect Mia to catch her like that. So what you're saying the Charge lost because of that one play? No the Charge lost because THEY DIDN'T SCORE ANY GOALS! So did the ref magicaly keep the ball out of the net? I'd sure like to know how that was accomplished. Some of you guys make up way too many excuses. You run around all season posting your asses off about how great you are as fans. How much you love your team. And when it really come down to backing your team and showing your support, what do some of you do? You run around clutching your pearls screaming conspiracy at the top of your lungs. Bottom line... cry all you want, do your best Oliver Stone impression. Your team didn't score any goals! Your defense left Gerardo unmarked in the box! Those are the two biggest reasons why you lost. It wasn't because of some league wide conspiracy.
Okay, so I have to weigh in on the Hamm-Lihong thing. I don't think the yellow was for the tackle..I think it was when Mia tried to jump over her and Lihong's leg came up a little and tripped her. I'm not saying she did it on purpose...but I think that's what the call was for.
Time out, M9.... Chill, OK? What we were saying was that the league and PAX (or more specifically, since I started it, so don't tee off on Adam) desperately need a good crowd and a TV rating for next weekend's final. And what better way to pop both than to have Mia in it. It was a possibility; good God, man, did you not see what happened in the NBA just this spring? The Kings won that western conference final series, out and out won it. And I will go to my grave saying the NBA came to the conclusion that a finals with the Nets and Kings would be a disaster, ratings-wise. And then they let Shaq run wild and anybody who got near him would be whistled for a foul. They wanted the Lakers to get the three-peat since it would be a better story and better TV draw. Mia wasn't a factor yesterday. We shut her down - again. But if Wambach is allowed to run amok like she did yesterday, then the Courage don't have a chance. Forget the Clemens thing; the swing moment was Wambach's demolition of Moore in the first half which was not, in Sandra Hunt's opinion, a cardable offense. If the roles were reversed, or if Iverson did the same thing to Mullinix, then Iverson should have gotten the yellow, and a PK. It was a flagrant foul. It seems you don't want to address that, and I'm calling you out on it here and now. Tell me you didn't hold your nose when Hunt didn't pull out a card for that. It's non-calls like that which would get any fan worked up into a lather. If you want to paint a bullseye on somebody, do it with me; Adam is one of the most respected and knowledgeable fans on this board, period. He don't need me to defend him, but there's an exception to every rule. Paul
Re: Time out, M9.... o, hold it hold it! dont blame shaq here just cause he's big! he has people hugging him, one player holding down each arm all the time and all he gets is a measley 2 point free throws which by god he never makes. if it was somebody say 100 pounds lighter flagrants would have been called. hey, the kings lost because they couldnt defend for the life of the last shot, their offense in waning moments pretty much became bibby bibby bibby. ok, i may be biased, being a lakers fan.
everybody needs to calm down. all this arguing and name-calling will not change anything. the truth of the matter is, calling fouls is subjective. refereeing is subjective. there are laws of the game, but the official is a human being who must intrepret all that is going on on the field. learn to accept that life isn't fair. it isn't meant to be fair. the charge lost. the freedom won. that's just the way it goes. the charge should have scored a couple of goals. they didn't. you can't win without scoring goals. and i am not criticizing any member of our team. they played with their hearts out there. they have given us a great season. i think it is a disservice to our team to be arguing with the opposing fans like this. the charge played the best soccer they could play yesterday. they didn't win. and that's okay. it doesn't diminish who they are or what they have accomplished this year.
i think the ref called a good game...there was only ONE blown call that i saw that had no way that it could have been anything else...that was that the goalie interfeerence by wambach was not a card..hell even if hunt thought the play was just a foul i would have booked her for the near minuite of dissent afterwards (isnt dissent a strict interpetation in WUSA after all). Yes the stoppage time in the 2nd half was generous but that i blame more on misscommunication and pooling of the dissent from the first half (which would = 3 mins with all the subs in the 2nd half each costing 30 seconds a pop, hunt blew the whistle at 3:38 not 4 that the 4th had indicated) it didnt have much effect on the outcome IMHO... my whole take was that since it was incidental momentium it should have not been a red...but i feel the goalie must be protected and an incident like this should be like high sticking in hockey, if its accidental it should be a minor (or in this case, a yellow) it turned out that wambach would have been tossed if that was the case (double yellow) but i dont really put enough merit in the what if factor to say if it would change the outcome...either team could have won. both converted chances which were stopped by some great goaltending, you cant really blame anyone or anything in the result of such a great football contest.
side note...dont bitch about the attendance...WUSA isnt the nhl...6500 was a great crowd for short notice and heavy competition. i have no regrets about this game...we'll be back next year...now who do you get to replace pia behind the bench?
Not true. It was Jimbo's tactical decision to play Mia on their right flank, replacing Makinen. Benson, and to a lesser extent Zhao, owned the left flank because Makinen played like a fish out of water. When Gerardo came in, Mia moved to left mid. Mia didn't get many scoring opportunities from playing that deep. Had the Charge won that game, the pundits would have had a field day with Jimbo's decision. Whether or not Mia was a factor, or was shut down, does not matter. The Charge gave the ball away too many times in the attacking half. Corners, FKs, crosses were struck to the box without any success. The aerial attack was not there. Creativity was lacking. We did not score.
My point is simple. You wanna complain about the ref fine. But don't blame your teams loss on some conspiracy. Your team lost because they didn't score any goals. Obviously it's good for the league to have THE marquee player in the final. I'm not even arguing or denying that. But to go as far as to say that is the reason the Freedom won is wrong. Some of you guys are nitpicking every call and blaming the loss on that. You wanna talk about non calls.. What about the handballs that were not called? You don't seem to have a problem with those? The Freedom are not in the final because it was the will of the league. They are in because they have had a hell of a season and because two second half subs (non of which is Mia) combined to score a goal. Sure I'll agree that Abby played it a bit ruff. She got the yellow didn't she? The foul she got the yellow for was at mid stripe and on it's own really isn't worthy of a yellow. Hunt booked her for a combination of both that foul and the previous collision with Moore.
Sandra chill. It takes a bigger man, or woman, to turn the other cheek when you don't like what's being said. Celebrate on the fact, and not get hysterical over the grumblings.
Re: Time out, M9.... Ok lets say for the sake of argument Hunt crads Abby. How does that help your team and prevent them from loosing? I don't wanna sound sarcastic but i dont understand the "PK" thing. How do you get a PK for fouling the Keeper? Look I don't wanna get into a fight. As a Freedom fan I'm just trying to understand how you blame your teams loss on the ref. This isn't the first time nor will it be the last time that fans of the team who lost come up with "why our team lost". The calls are not the reason why your team lost. I'm calling you out on that. That is something you don't want to address. The whole of my post was not directed towards him. Just the part about the Lihong foul. The rest of it was directed to the conspiracy theorist.
What Philly fans conveniently forget is the 4 or 5 Charge handballs Hunt missed (one of which would have been a PK) when we had our only one called right outside the 18 in the 87th minute. Or the fact Clemens completely plowed Carrie Moore from behind with no call before she ever got inside the 18 to Wambach. We all thought Hunt let more go for red than for blue FWIW, but at the very least it was even and unbiased. Some of this makes for very funny reading though. I give G4M credit at least for being sporting afterwards, which must have been tough. FWIW, Mia's appeared to be handed more of a defensive role yesterday as she made a number of good plays on D, even though she did little up front.
Re: Re: Time out, M9.... Ask the Beat how losing a player to ejection helped their chances. Who knows what would have happened if Wambach was tossed after her foul on Connors? I was mistaken - I don't know what I was thinking there. Any player on any team that did what Abby did to Moore yesterday and that's a yellow. We didn't convert our chances. We lacked the size in the middle and up front to efficiently finish our chances. Paul
As i said before, i had NO gripes about the officiating aside from one call which was made, it just wasnt enforced as much as i would have liked...most of this ref talk is absurd, i agree with you...as for the handballs, they were getting away with that on both sides of the ball but yes we did it more than you...there was also a blown offside where hunt ignored the flag which was dumb. Hunt is the best ref in WUSA hands down...i have no complaints or regrets about the game, i dont know why people are so up in arms...really if this is all we are gonna do this off season, please unsticky this thread and count me out when mentioning charge fan conduct on this thread. Hey, i consider the gang in NC im with a psudo SC...its only fair to congragulate the winners, teams do it, so should fans...i find nothing special about it, in fact i really think SCs in both WUSA and MLS should show some more commoadrie and sportsmanship after games...and I DEFINATLY found nothing tough about it...its the only thing to do IMHO, if you noticed, i even bowed to mia after the game...i mean i joined the crusaders for Sam's Army in charleston and probley will still be joining them in atlanta (DCUpope, check your PMs) SC and fan business is all in good fun, so is sports, when people forget that and let things rule the rest of their lives...IMHO thats what seperates the innocent fanatics from the dangerous stalkers. there were things said in this thread which are not indicative of the people who posted them...that being said, i must say that some of the conduct of certain freedom fans on this thread borders on trolling, i really think its time for charge! to be the mod he is and take control of this thread. this thread does NOT represent the fans of Philadelphia Charge F.C. as i can remember them from all season, the flyers or eagles maybe, but not the charge. C'mon guys, we lost a game, not an identity as fans, lets be graceful and except things as they are. End of rant
Thread is unstuck...en route to closure? Maybe you're right, Glenn...I think all of us need to take a step back collectively and count to 10 before this gets out of control any further. What's done is done, and can't be changed. What we should be talking about is what the Charge needs to do to get over the semifinal hump next year. And maybe it's time to close this thread. This is the first time I've ever been put on the spot as Glenn has done (and it was time to do so). I don't want to do something arbitrarily and I come out looking like more of a bad guy than I perhaps am already. Or perhaps after our regulars Sebe and Chargefans weigh in beginning this week, then I'll close the thread. Their input as always, is measured and accurate and level-headed. Paul
To all the Washington fans: Speaking on behalf of myself, a charge fan, I totally think that Washington won, fair and square. I dont think any of us Charge fans or I have said ANYTHING that there was a conspiracy for the Charge to lose, and so on (and if I have, I dont mean it). It is our duty, as dedicated Philadelphia fans, to go over the what-if's and why's. Every fan for every team does it. We just have to bring up these issues for our personal sense of closure. If Washington fans dont like what they see written, suck it up. Because I KNOW that if Philadelphia won (which was very probable, as both teams were quite equal,) Washington fans would be going over the game, looking over EVERY detail and finding miniscule non-calls and the other fouls to see where the game could have resulted differently. I am not saying that this is a good thing to do, but the thing is it is part of the game of soccer.
Part of the reason I don't post is so I can stay out of this junk. I think you'll find that whenever a team loses there will always be a couple people who blame it on the ref. If some of you actually took the time to read, you would see most Charge fans never said the ref played a role in the outcome...ESPECIALLY Adam. So, don't get over excited. There would be a few Washington fans saying the same things if the positions were reversed. So, just enjoy the thoughtul conversations on this board. As far as my viewpoint of the game, I can't agree more with Cachundo's first post. It was if he was reading my mind. My player of the game would have definately been Benson.
I totally agree with Poirot. Eventhough I'm dissaoppointed that the Charge lost, I must say that Washington won fair and square. I do think that there were some bad calls, but what would any sports event be without bad calls? The Freedom won because they took advantage of their chances and we didn't, not because of the refs. I hope that Washington does well because they deserve it. I also hope that next season, the Charge have another successful season and that we'll win the Championships. ~Kara
Sebe points out a very critical element. Don't attribute one fans views of the Charge onto other Charge fans views. It's similar to this monolithic communism arguement. Trying to find a reason for winning or losing is like rolling that boulder up and down that steeo grade, only to have it roll to the bottom again. The team with the most goals wins, and DC converted better. Simple, congratulate them and move on. Just like I congratulated the DC fan with her daughter sitting right behind me. Sure they were annoyed by my rooting for the Charge, but the little girl's constant cheering for Mia never ended. And that's what opposing fans attitudes should be. It's your team, win or lose, your heros, no matter their faults. And if you want to enter a pissing contest, finbd some subject of significance. The object is to enjoy your team, and hopefully in your enjoyment of it, not offend the other guys too much.