News: Seleção General Discussion 2023 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Ombak, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...-da-selecao-cbf-ainda-busca-coordenador.ghtml

    Dorival will be officially introduced as coach on Wednesday.

    CBF is in fact looking to hire a coordinator, so at least that's positive. Since the position is coordinator, not director, it's not as much of an issue that they are hiring after finding a coach. (Obviously there are plenty of issues with how they did this, overall.)

    Filipe Luís was contacted, at least by intermediaries, but declined as he does not have the experience and would like to start his coaching career.

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...a-ser-coordenador-da-selecao-brasileira.ghtml
     
  2. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Filipe Luís' decision demonstrates prudence and humility, and potentially, a CYA mentality. I also speculate that his time in UEFA impressed upon him the necessity of being very professional within the world of football, and as he is a brand-new coach-to-be who barely ended his playing days, he knows he's best off getting all the certifications CBF offers (including anything CONMEBOL requires if he ever becomes a coach of a Brazilian team in a CONMEBOL tournament) plus some experience before taking on a major job.

    As you are a Flamengo supporter who accompanied Dorival's conquest of the Copa do Brasil and of the Libertadores in 2022, what's your take on the style of football he is likely to have Brazil play and do you agree/disagree with whatever I wrote here re: his influence on SPFC in 2023?
     
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  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Paqueta out 2 months with a calf injury.
     
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  4. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Here's a neat summary of Dorival tactically that I think is very much worth reading:
    https://ge.globo.com/blogs/painel-t...or-novo-treinador-da-selecao-brasileira.ghtml

    It's not Dinizismo, but it's still focused on a lot of Brazilian things, like tabelas and a player first approach. I definitely think we need a player first approach right now. We have such a variety of different characteristics, even where we have depth. For example, if a call-up includes Rodrygo and Raphinha as the right-wing options, those are completely different options that must be used differently to get the most out of them.

    As for your perspective on Dorival's influence on SPFC, I tend to agree, if I understand correctly, that he turned the mentality around, so that even if the league result is underwhelming and saved mostly by the Copa do Brasil title, the important thing is the belief he instilled.
     
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  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #555 Ombak, Jan 10, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2024
    That's cutting it close for March, but should be available. I was worried when he left injured recently but hadn't seen an update.

    Also a little frustrated we haven't heard any update from the FA case against him. The last ge reporting suggested that would automatically be archived, but they haven't followed up on it. Maybe it has been archived quietly?

    Update: CBF announces Dorival officially, will hold press conference tomorrow: https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...como-novo-tecnico-da-selecao-brasileira.ghtml

    https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...1/10/dorval-jr-tecnico-selecao-brasileira.htm
     
  6. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #556 Ombak, Jan 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2024
    Today's press conference:


    The Press Conference started with Ednaldo announcing Dorival Jr., signing the contract and handing him a coach's jersey.

    Then Dorival spoke for close to 10 minutes about his path to get there, from his struggles with cancer (his and his wife's) to his personal life in football to now. Then he called on the fans to support the national team.

    Whatever you think of what he said, it's clear he care, a lot, about this and it's easy to see why he accepted even in this environment. He mentioned Diniz and other coaches and called for people to see the national team as Brazil's and not as Tite's, Felipão's or his.

    Questions starting now.
     
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  7. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    As an insider (former player, manager), Dorival knows there's cynicism from many fans towards the NT, and while he can't change that, he seems honest and sincere in rebuilding the team, in regaining confidence, in starting to win.

    He also emphasized how competitive Brazilian soccer (domestically) is vis-a-vis other countries' leagues and that the Copa do Brasil is as competitive if not more than the Libertadores.

    Dorival then stated he is willing to convocar players who play in Brazil to the NT, as long as they deserve it. I can believe him, but given the best of the best (minus a few exceptions) play outside Brazil, how often will he be able to keep this commitment?

    Dorival honored the now deceased Zagallo: "Acima de tudo, que cada um assuma um pouco mais a responsabilidade a partir do momento em que forem convocados. Os atletas precisam voltar a sentir um pouco mais a camisa da seleção. A lição que o Zagallo nos deixou é uma lição que tem que ficar guardada para o resto da vida." ("Above all, may each assume a bit more the responsibility from the moment they are capped. The players need to again feel a bit more the NT jersey. The lesson Zagallo left us is a lesson that must remain for life.")

    Zagallo was ufanista, perhaps at times excessively, but his love for the national team and for Brazilian soccer were beyond question. Dorival may be onto something here.
     
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  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't make it a habit of listening to many press conferences so I never really heard Dorival much. He sounded nervous but perhaps that's how he typically sounds ?

    I found him putting too much emphasis on the apparent lack of interest from fans with the NT. To the point that it felt like he places some of the blame in the failures of the NT on them. Play well and win and you will see more excitement. In 2017 fans were literally shouting Tite's name in the stands when the team was doing well in the WCQ. Perhaps it's also that many don't relate to many of these players.

    Another point he repeated during the press. conf is that he questioned the commitment of the players. I am not sure if it's a real comment from something he observed or some canned comment that came out wrong. It made me wonder what exactly is he referring to. Is it behavior off the field or lack of commitment on the field ? There are things I didn't like with Tite's team, but I never felt like players were lacking commitment.

    Overall nothing he said stood out to me. I think he was often a bit elusive with his answers. Didn't inspire me a lot of confidence but we will see. Time will tell.
     
  9. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Some of the follow-up articles below.

    About the Press Conference itself:
    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...unior-novo-tecnico-selecao-apresentacao.ghtml

    About the upcoming schedule:
    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...ao-esta-prevista-para-o-dia-1o-de-marco.ghtml

    The call-up should be on or around March 1, as I guessed earlier. Friendlies in March are against England, March 23 at Wembley and against Spain, March 26 at the Bernabeu.

    In June there will be two friendlies one against Mexico and one TBC which previous reporting indicated is pending negotiation with the USMNT.
     
  10. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    CBF is looking to hire a manager and a director. Manager would handle more of the matchday work, like planning friendlies and inspections. The director would be above that in the hierarchy and, I imagine, set goals or standards for concentração, communication with clubs and convocações.

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...ara-ocupar-cargos-executivos-na-selecao.ghtml

    Dorival has recommended 3 names, but all are currently employed. CBF wants to negotiate, hire and announce before the March 1 convocação.
     
  11. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Are you saying we should apply ? :ROFLMAO:
     
  12. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I considered making that joke when I posted!

    Since then some of the names have leaked, apparently UOL reported it first, but I didn't find their article, so here's the ge one:

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...-em-pauta-para-departamento-de-selecoes.ghtml

    Rodrigo Caetano, diretor de futebol for Atlético-MG, and Mauro Silva, who is currently a VP of the Federação Paulista are the candidates. I assumed Mauro Silva would take the Edu/Juninho Paulista role of coordinator and Caetano the director role, but it's not clear from the article.

    So if we want to apply we at least have a reference now!
     
  13. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's the same I heard. I think Mauro Silva would be a good game but he seems to want to be President of Paulista Federation. He is more in the political side of things.

    I don't know why someone like Cafu doesn't step up.
     
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  14. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Jose Mourinho?

    o que você diz? - no way for you guys?
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    We already hired someone.
     
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  16. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Damn. Too bad. The idea of Jose Mourinho answering questions from reporters at the Copa America makes me giddy. . . maybe Mexico can hire him, but I am not going to suggest that in the Mexican forum (those guys are waaaayy too touchy)
     
  17. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Dorival Jr. begins as a full-time national team coach today:

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...cia-nova-rotina-como-tecnico-da-selecao.ghtml

    The article highlights that he will be at CBF, full-time, learning about the one part of the structure that has been maintained since Tite's era, the scouting staff and database.

    My big questions for the call-up are:
    1. how much of a waste will last year be? Will he bring in someone like Thiago Silva who hasn't been called since 2022, because he wants that experience and leadership? (To be fair maybe he'd want Thiago Silva anyways considering he's still doing well.)
    2. How many players from Brazil can we really expect to see? Does his statement mean we'll continue to see Veiga and maybe two or three others which was normal under Tite (3 went to the World Cup) and under Diniz (he called up 4, 5 and 6 but no more than that), or will we see a big difference?
    3. Which players who he has worked with in the past will he count on? Veterans? Youngsters? Would he call a Lucas Moura (I don't think so, just using a recent example)? Will he call a Beraldo? (Even with many options on central defense, I think we could see him.)
    Convocação happens in 6 weeks.
     
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  18. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  19. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    More news on the potential hirings:

    https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...or-de-selecoes-incluindo-caetano-e-pentas.htm

    Rodrigo Caetano remains at the top of the list for director of football/national teams. That role would be "perfil de executivo para organizar todo o departamento de seleções, incluindo base e profissional".

    Muricy Ramalho was approached but did not want the job.

    In an interview after the Copa do Brasil job the President said the role would be filled before the March friendlies:

    https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...r-da-cbf-ate-a-proxima-data-fifa-em-marco.htm
     
  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    After Fluminense defeated Bangu 4-1 last night in the fifth round of the 2024 Taça Guanabara, Fernando Diniz spoke about his very short stint with the Seleção.

    Diniz stated he had the conviction that the job he was doing, with more time, would have yielded very important results; he used the English word "feeling" to highlight how he felt and what he believed at that time. He also stated that for those who were part of the situation on the inside, there was clarity about that which was being done and that six matches is an extremely small sample.

    Translated, Diniz also stated: "Unfortunately we speak much of short-term results and I get tired of saying that this is one of the negative things about Brazilian football. The work needed a bit more time. Not because it was me, but any person would need some more time. It's not possible for one to have a very small sample and to perform any evaluation. I left (the Seleção) with the feeling of having done the best of having created special relationships with the players and the staff who were with me then. It was a great pleasure to have had this opportunity.... the work in and of itself was being done very well and I had much trust it would have yielded important fruits for the Seleção. That which I was able to see in training with the players and the staff. I am grateful for the opportunity I was given... it was a difficult transition process. Many players who were at the 2022 World Cup with some type of problem, injury, (yellow or red) card, some players whom we looked at who had advanced ages and we decided to bet on reformulation."

    Diniz further said he wishes things had been different but it's over now and he was diplomatic enough to state he believes the Seleção is now in good hands.

    Arguably, what he says is true. With time, with players being fit, and with players getting used to Diniz's system, the team's performance would likely have begun to improve. Brazil actually did not do so bad against Argentina in Rio, although the most important part - scoring - didn't happen.

    I still feel bad for Diniz. He was nothing more than a placeholder and it was the sloppy decisions made by CBF's top leadership post-Qatar that led to him being even offered the job - a job he wasn't ready for yet.

    Let's hope the Seleção plays well under Dorival.
     
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  21. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Richarlison showing great form lately.
     
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  22. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  23. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Douglas Luiz deserves a shout as well, great passing today on the first two goals and continues to be one of the best performers week in and week out.
     
  24. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    With Dorival's first convocação less than four weeks away, I am starting to think about what it will look like. Of course it's harder to predict with a new coach, so instead of one big post with a prediction, I thought I'd share some of the questions I have and the things I'm considering.

    Then, as the convocação approaches, make some posts to go over the different parts of the team: GK + defense, midfield, and offense.

    Injuries
    Neymar
    , Caio Henrique and Militão are out long-term with ACL inuries. I think the last two might be available for Copa América, but none of them will be in the picture for March.

    Paquetá should be back in time for the friendlies, but maybe not before the actual call-up. I think that, especially with a director now to provide some guidelines, they'll call him up with the expectation he'll be ready for the international window.

    With an early call-up and plenty of time until then, there's a lot of potential for injury absences. Gabriel left injured today and Vini didn't play, so fingers crossed the most important names are available at the right time.

    Veterans and leadership
    I mentioned this before, but I think it's possible Dorival will go back to pre-Diniz and Ramon when considering how to transition. In the end I don't think this will change much. I think it increases the chances the Danilo and Casemiro remain, for their leadership alone. But both of those players called up often last year.

    Thiago Silva is the one player I could see coming back who wasn't counted on last year. I don't really see any other Tite-era leaders or veterans who we didn't see last year coming back under Dorival.

    Players in Brazil
    Dorival suggests he'll call more players in Brazil. Veiga, André and Nino were called up consistently last year. Since Nino is in Russia now and we have depth at that position, I think he's less likely to be called.

    Other recent call-ups still in Brazil are Gérson, Paulinho, Endrick. Considering Dorival worked with Gérson at Flamengo, I think that's a big possibility. Endrick obviously is too. Who else could be included? A third goalkeeper? Options at full-back?

    What about SP or Flamengo or other players who Dorival might rely on? Could Lucas Moura get a shout?

    Youth
    Endrick
    and Vitor Roque got call-ups last year. But with just 23 spots, will they be in the first call-up for Dorival? Maybe. What youngsters who Dorival worked with recently might get the nod over someone with previous call-ups? Beraldo is probably the likeliest one since he was very good at São Paulo and is getting regular playing time at PSG now.

    New(ish) names
    Again, since this is his first call-up, it's hard to imagine a lot of new names but there are some that could definitely pop up depending on what Dorival wants. Samuel Lino? Ederson? Could Pepê get called back? What about the rest of the Porto crew? Or Arthur Cabral at Benfica?

    New director
    With a new director will there be any changes to how things are done? I always say we should call more than the typical 23 players. Will he hire a coordinator (the Juninho role under Tite in 2022)? Will he keep the early call-up pattern?

    Anyways, those are some of the things I will be looking out for in articles leading up to the convocação.

    I'll post some early guesses or ideas by position later this week.
     
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  25. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

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