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Discussion in 'International News' started by The Biscuitman, Sep 23, 2013.
How's the crack?
It is a great story. Unfortunately, it is apocryphal (like most great stories). At any rate, the Wales and Berwick Act 1746 states (or stated, the law was repealed later) that for legal purposes, references to "England" include Wales and Berwick.
I had to give a speech once in a hotel in Tunbridge Wells. And the truth is everything was exactly what you expected of a hotel in Tunbridge Wells. I walked in and everyone in the lobby was a blue haired old lady reading the Mail.
I think I've heard that before as it happens but I'm pretty certain that, regardless of that, the words England and Britain were used interchangeably for a LONG time... like the 'rest' didn't matter.
Tunbridge Wells, eh?... and you an American.
Man, that shows some guts
I thought the crack was ninety in the Isle of Man ?
300 years of this and I can understand why they wanted to become independent:
we watched the seinfeld episode with elaine's english boyfriend last night. suddenly the reasoning behind the blitz becomes crystal clear.
Yeah, I saw that elsewhere.. brilliant
Of course, it's worth pointing out that the guys that made it are also English.
With UKIP nipping at their heels my guess is the tories will be next time.
So will your side (labour) win in 2015 or is ED going to fall flat on his face and lose it for you guys.
I think we'll win a narrow victory, simply because the tories have got too much to do and won't make it because of UKIP. We might need a few extra liberal votes though... that's a possibility. But that's not a problem anyway.
UKIP isn't winning one seat in Westminster. I believe their support will collapse even in marginal districts because the Tory right will be scared that labour might actually win and return to the fold. Labour did so much damage I doubt people give them another go just five years later.
A little tip... probably NOT a good idea to give up the day job and take up forecasting results... not full-time, anyway
BTW, is was the BANKING crisis that did the damage, not labour. Well, unless you believe labour was in power in the states,, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Italy, etc. etc.
Oops I was wrong. Wasn't Carswell the former Tory MP who switched to UKIP it makes sense that he still has support. And Clacton-on-Sea looks like a prefect place for UKIP to win a seat oveewhlmingy white, working class people in southeastern england disaffected Tories and a depressed economy down there.
Seems like UKIo is also doing well in labour country up north almost won a seat in the greater manchester area. Why are so many labour people voting or are attracted to UKIP?
Labour did do a lot of damage the Iraq war, a widening gap between rich and poor, neoliberal economic polices, ignoring their working class base and people believed they allowed mass immigration into the UK at a rate of 300k a year.
how about a UK election thread in the elections section? should be interesting for the UK to stay in the EU or not question as well.
The tories vote will split, allowing us to get in even with a relatively modest vote.
That's the meme the 'meeja' are putting out atm but I doubt there are many people moving directly from labour to UKIP.
What I suspect is happening is that people who voted tory are unhappy, (because they failed to stop immigration in the way they promised and are giving mixed messages about Europe), are now voting UKIP. If you then add in some people who don't like immigrants and would probably vote BNP if they thought they had a chance of winning, are now coming out of the woodwork and voting UKIP.
Ed Miliband didn't vote for the Iraq war because he wasn't in parliament at the time and, if I had to guess, I think he wouldn't have done so. In fact I suspect that's why he stood against his brother who was foreign secretary at the time, IIRC.
The 'widening gap' business has always been something of a misnomer because it's measuring, mostly, the increases at the top and saying it was greater than at the bottom when the reality is there were large increases in the income for the poor too... just not as big as at the top.
I agree about the 'neo-liberal policies' and, to an extent, about ignoring their working class base, (although the main area that happened was in immigration which is hardly a socialist position anyway), but the immigration levels were as a result of the success of the economy for the first decade of power where we averaged 3% growth per annum for 10 years... that's why people came here.
It's worth highlighting that in Heyward & Middleton the UKIP share of the vote was not a huge shock. At the 2010 election, the combined vote for right wing parties (Tories, UKIP, BNP) was 36.8% with the BNP getting over 3000 votes. At the recent by election it was 43.8% on a much lower turnout.
Interestingly, the labour vote held up, in fact going UP 1%. Actually, there was 7.8% swing from the tories TOO labour there. If that was replicatated across the north, (which it won't be, obviously), we're on course for a healthy win next year.
My guess is that UKIP will maybe get 3-5 seats in 2015 but they'll do enough damage to wipe out ANY chance of an outright tory majority, i.e. the same as happened to us during the 80's with the liberal/SDP alliance.
What MIGHT be interesting is if some southern tories jump for the lifeboats BEFORE next year, the same as Carswell did. I don't think it will happen... but it might.
In all honesty I'd prefer if labour said we'll have a referendum directly they get in to lance the boil of UKIP because I think the same thing would happen as happened in the Scottish referendum and people WOULDN'T vote to come out because of the fear of what would happen.
Exactly, it boggles my mind that people still fall for the tory spin on it. You have to be ********ing idiot to not see the global effect at the time.
Huge surge of support for UKIP a damning lack of confidence for Ed Miliband he just doesn't inspire confidence
Perhaps a UKIP-Tory coalition would be best for England..... But definitely not for the UK.
Well, we didn't do enough to try and rein the banks in but, obviously, that's largely because there's little one country, on it's own, can achieve.
Of course, that's also why Murdoch and the other UKIP backers/funders WANT to split Europe up... so they can pick us off, one by one. Having said that, there's little evidence atm of any intention to rein in the power of the banks.
I'm just hoping Miliband is biding his time till he gets into power and can influence these things. I mean, I tend to think not, tbh ... but we'll see.
Quoting the Daily Hate-Mail? Really???
Anything with significant UKIP involvement would be a DISASTER... for EVERYONE.
They're a joke with absolutely NO considered policies, other than the fact they don't like immigrants, (which, for them, generally means 'darkies'), and Europe. In the past they've argued for a flat-rate tax, (so tax cuts for the well-off and tax RISES for the poor), and massive cuts to the NHS which they've now amended ever so slightly to mean INCREASES for the NHS.
They adopt whatever policies they think will sell.
Their range of 'people who have experienced the REAL world outside of politics' extends all the way from investment managers, through stockbrokers to hedge-fund managers... oh yeah, a bunch of horny-handed sons of toil, I DON'T think.
You've missed out "corrupt cash for questions, former Tory MPs", "dodgy expense claiming, former Tory MPs" and "too drunk to vote for the budget, former Tory MPs". They sure know how to pick them.
Apparantly someone from Clacton was interviewed during the by-election and said that they were voting UKIP because the current MP had done nothing for the town.