You're entitled to your opinion but is that really your conclusion? A 21-3 first round series record over the past three years doesn't indicate that one group is better but is simply due to the order of the legs? Would you also argue that MLS is actually on par with MLX but, unfortunately, the order of the legs is often against them? I wouldn't.
CL and CCL minutes are good for individual players who participate. For leagues, though, I think the arrow goes the other way. It's a good measuring stick to see where you're at but a few CL or CCL games isn't what drives improvement. MLS isn't closing the gap on MLX because a few teams play a few games each year - it's because total payroll has gone up dramatically and the day in, day out regular season level of play is much higher. I think this is where we slide past each other a bit in our positions. The CPL does have more playing time for Canadians than MLS and having minutes is essential to developing players. (Without putting words in your mouth, this seems to be your emphasis.) Having that playing time be at the appropriate level is equally important. (This is my emphasis.) The CPL is a vital new part of our soccer pyramid. It is, however, just one step above the base level of amateur players. I do not want our NT players to be in the CPL. The role of the CPL is to sort out the good candidates and pass them up the pyramid to teams where our NT players should come from. Ideally Europe but we can settle for guys who can start and shine - not just bench - in MLS. So we could have twenty CPL teams but they're only useful to the NT to the extent that they move players up the pyramid. If we have high level (CCL) minutes to hand out, don't spend them on a bunch of CPL players just because one of the guys on that team might one day make the NT. Use them on guys who are on the NT now to improve our chances for 2022. The guys currently in the CPL who are headed for the NT will get their minutes in the 2024 CCL once they've graduated up the pyramid. So to address your point, having two or three guys who matter playing at that level does do the most good. Having ten times that amount of guys who don't factor in does less good. Unless my math is wrong.
CONCACAF Champions League is revamping, expanding format from 2023 on. Will start with 3 regional groups (50 teams in total). North America group stage will feature 20 teams from Canada, U.S. and Mexico with 8 advancing to knockout round of 16. Another 3 will qualify a play-in round. Central America group stage will feature 20 teams sending 4 to knockout round. Caribbean group stage will feature 10 teams, sending one to the knockout round. Concacaf Champions League to expand with innovative new format starting 2023/24 Details: https://t.co/2AmI6fmwUI pic.twitter.com/ap53TWvZF4— Concacaf Champions Cup (@TheChampions) February 4, 2021
The quotes below are from https://www.concacafchampionsleague...d-with-innovative-new-format-starting-2023-24 "A total of 20 clubs from Canada, Mexico, and USA will qualify into the Concacaf Champions League through performance in domestic leagues and cup competitions, including one qualification slot through the Leagues Cup." The League Cup slot could go to a team from any of the three countries. That leaves 19 spots to divide three ways. I am interested to see how many go to each country. "Following group stage play, the four group winners and the four group second-place finishers will qualify to the Concacaf Champions League knockout stage. Those eight clubs will be joined by a further three North American clubs, who will qualify via a play-in round that will follow the group stage." It will also be interesting to see who gets to be in the play in.
It would be 1 League Cup 1 MX Cup 1 US Open 1 Canadian Championship 16 spots up for grab Liga MX-MLS-CPL 7-7-2 or 7-6-3
I guess it would depend if they hand out the slots by country or by league (with the League Cup being an international slot regardless). If they tie slots to a country then (using your 7-7-2 distribution) there would be 8 Mexican spots, 8 US spots, and 3 Canadian slots for the countries to allocate (plus the League Cup slot). If they tie the spots by league instead then there would be 8 Mexican teams, anywhere from 5 to 8 US teams, and anywhere from 3 to 6 Canadian teams. I'd assume a national tie in because that's how it's always been done but they've broken that already with this League Cup slot and the MLS in Back tournament slot.
**rubs eyes** Ok, so I have a couple questions about the below... 1) How on earth did the CentAm feds agree to this? The R16 will now have 11 NorthAm teams, at Central America's expense. 2) What is supposed to be the draw of the Central American and Caribbean play-in tournaments? Presumably they will not involve the best teams from each country, if there are country-specific CCL berths on offer... 3) Finally, will the increase in games and teams involved mean that we'll finally see a significant increase in the prize money?
Good question. I'm not sure what you mean by the part I bolded. Doesn't this replace the country specific berths? Meaning if you're the best team in a CentAm country you still need to quality this way, not just get your country's berth? Maybe. Since the prize money would mostly go to only a very few teams, however, I think the bigger money draw is the ability to sell tickets to the extra matches.
It's usually allocated by countries. Looks like CONCACAF already declared that it wanted the winners of all 3 domestic cups + League Cup (4) So that's 16 berth CONCACAF has to reallocate between all 3 countries. Out of 16, could be: 7-7-2 6-6-4 7-6-3 etc... Then the association decides how to allocate them within it's pyramid. Since the 3 Canadians clubs might finally be able to qualify via the league (See below) - very doubtful the CSA adds more berths to the Voyageurs Cup. CPL would get the balance of the berths https://www.espn.com/soccer/concaca...caf-champions-league-to-expand-format-in-2023 At least three of the 20 clubs from North America will hail from Canada, with two teams coming from the Canadian Premier League and another from the Canadian Championship. The three Canadian teams currently playing in MLS could also qualify through MLS competitions.
Not much leverage in Central America This was more about killing any "Super League" talks or speculation with the legitimization of their League Cup The money is in North America, CONCACAF can make much more money by making the CCL more popular up north and those matchup draws more attention and fans More rivalries Countries still gets berths allocated to them and club performances determines who joins the group stage (best of each countries goes to group stage) They better!
North America USA & Mexico - 17 berths No USL League Cup (1 berth) Copa MX (1 Berth) US Open (1 Berth) Canadian clubs in MLS would be able to qualify via MLS according to ESPN https://www.espn.com/soccer/concaca...caf-champions-league-to-expand-format-in-2023 Canada - 3 berths 1 Berth via the Canadian Championship 2 Berths via the Canadian Premier League Strong message from CONCACAF : League is more important than 3 clubs playing in the US If this does pan out, this sends a message from #Concacaf that the domestic leagues holds more importance from the confederation than Canadian teams playing outside the country.— Tristan D'Amours (@tristandamours) February 4, 2021 Central America 20 clubs from Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama will qualify for the competition through performance in domestic leagues and a new Central American cup competition. Caribbean 10 clubs from the Caribbean will qualify, eight of which directly through professional leagues in the Caribbean region and two through a new Caribbean cup which will include representation from across the Caribbean. The US Open Cup will remain the only way that USL teams can qualify for the Concacaf Champions League— Bob Williams (@WilliamsBob75) February 4, 2021 More revenues + New TV Deals Per @JeffreyCarlisle, this info has been shared by Victor Montagliani on a Zoom call with reporters.— Bob Williams (@WilliamsBob75) February 4, 2021
If this actually means all MLS competitions then it would be useful for Canada. If it really means just the Leagues Cup then less so. I'd be surprised if it actually was all the competitions, however, as that would mean the US giving up spots.
I think you're right - they must mean the League Cup only meaning the Voyageurs Cup would be their best bet to get in.
Clarification the 3 Canadian MLS clubs will be eligible to qualify for CCL via MLS Regular Season Trying again. I realize I'm getting into the weeds here on #CCL as it relates to Canadian teams, but here is the relevant quote from #Concacaf prez Victor Montagliani. pic.twitter.com/x7dIgkHLWV— Jeff Carlisle (@JeffreyCarlisle) February 4, 2021 And interview
It's almost like they didn't trust associations to use them properly. All those USL talks forcing Montagliani to have to make it clear that they weren't getting direct berths lol
2023 CCL Explained In case you missed it ⬇️ A new CCL format is coming in 2023!🖥 ≫ https://t.co/yvVejs3NDE pic.twitter.com/RVbicZ6bUq— Concacaf Champions Cup (@TheChampions) February 5, 2021
So basically, there can be up to 6 Canadian teams... 3 from the MLS and 3 from the CPL right? So MLS having an extra team in the CCL is practically over starting 2023 Am I reading right?
Almost. There are three spots that will go to Canadian teams - two straight from the CPL and one from the winner of the Canadian Championship (which is like the US Open Cup). There could theoretically be up to three additional Canadian teams if the three Canadian MLS teams won spots through MLS league play. And there could be a Canadian team if a Canadian team won the Leagues Cup. But there are only three Canadian MLS teams so there would still only be a maximum of six Canadian teams even if the Canadian MLS teams won the MLS slots and the League Cup. By extra spots now do you mean four US and one Canadian? MLS will now have 7 guaranteed spots. There are also three more spots (Leagues Cup, Canadian Championship, US Open Cup) that could go to MLS teams. The Previously there were only three guaranteed spots and two possible spots (CC and USOC). The biggest difference other than numbers is that those three guaranteed spots were only open to US clubs whereas the seven guaranteed spots going forward are for MLS clubs regardless of nationality.
That is a big change. I did not expect that as usually things are arranged to provide the maximum benefit to the US teams. I guess it depends what you mean by properly. If the US had seven spots and wanted to give one of them to the USL winner as a way of promoting the growth of their soccer pyramid, I wouldn't really see the harm in that. Canada gives spots to the CPL teams which is clearly intended to try to foster the growth of the domestic game, not to maximize Canada's chances of winning the CCL.
Despite CONCACAF giving berths to associations (in this case - CCF seemed more "hands on" on how they were allocated) bottom line is that CCL is still "their" tournament and ultimately can accept or reject how associations give those berths if it goes against their guidelines Consistently around the world, leagues with D1 sanctions gets berths. CPL is sanction as D1 because it meets the norms sets by the association to meet said standards which is ultimately ratified or rejected by the confederation and/or FIFA. CPL is D1, USL is not. Nothing stops them from applying for D1 Status at the USSF. Until then, that's just the way it is
^ If I was the US, I wouldn't give a spot to the USL. I was just saying that if I was CONCACAF I wouldn't object if they wanted to for development reasons, the same as the CSA gives the CPL a leg up.