Pre-match: Round 1, Group D, 2014 World Cup qualifying game nr. 6/10 : Netherlands vs Romania

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
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    VS.
    [​IMG]
    Venue, time and referee:
    [​IMG]
    All officials:
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    Head to head overview between the two country's (Netherlands= Red):
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    Overview of all competetive games between the two country's:
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    Overview of all friendly games between the two country's:
    [​IMG]
    Fifa ranking of both country's since it's creation:
    [​IMG]
    Possible talking points:
    • Will Vermeer be keeper again, or will van Gaal use another keeper with shifting demands from facing another opponent?
    • BMI made some mistakes in build up and did not cover through all times against Estonia, while Vlaar was one of the better players in the away game against Romania. Will we keep the central defense as it is, or do we have to chance it up again?
    • Are the crosses from Blind up to standard for the Dutch NT?
    • Has de Guzman secured his spot as the controlling midfielder or did his sloppy passing in the second half open the door for Jordy Clasie?
    • Strootman was probably the worst player against Estonia. Not for the first time. Is van Gaal right to put so much trust in a player with low handling speed, or is it time to start investing in other options?
    • Maher only got into the team as Sneijder got injured. Is it time to say goodbye against our best player in 2008, 2010 and 2012 and give new 10's more of a chance or do we continue to keep faith in Sneijder as first captain and number 1 playmaker?
    • Is Maher overrated in the Netherlands? Against Estonia we saw how important a scoring 10 can be, opening up the game for us at a perfect time. Maher is not clinical (missed 3 chances against Italy), does not have a great distance shot and also does not not have an acceleration that can break the line. He can only break the final line of the opponent with his passing and vision which is the same as the the other play makers offer. Other than being more dynamic than VdV and Sneijder, what does Maher have to offer the Dutch NT?
    • Is Siem de Jong with his more vertical playing style not more suited to provide RvP a deep going outlet for his creative passing when he drops? Who else do you think would combine very well with RvP playing behind him?
    • Is Huntelaar second striker behind RvP or third striker behind Lens? Van Gaal made 2 exceptions so far from his philosophy. One for Robben and one for Lens. Looks like van Gaal rates Lens quite a bit.
    • Is Janmaat the biggest surprise of the van Gaal era so far?
    • Finally, the Arena was not full last game and the same goes for the Italy game IIRC. How big of a loss is it that the Dutch NT games are not held in de Kuip?
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^some very intriguing points. I would start Stekelenburg in goal for this match and Clasie rather than Strootman. I don't think de Jong gets in the match as long as Van der Vaart is on the pitch as they are pretty much the same kind of players and Raffie is a much better ball handler. That still leaves room for a third midfielder and I'm not sure who that should be.
     
  3. s7kru

    s7kru Red Card

    Dec 13, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Interesting points.
    De Guzman showed his class against Estonia, IMO he should play instead of Strootman. And it's too soon to say goodbye to Sneijder. In form he is truly Netherlands' best midfielder.

    I follow some of his matches at Galatasaray and I'd have to say that he is slowly getting better. His condition ain't that good though
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In a recent interview from van Gaal in a coaching magazine he explained the configuration and idea behind his midfield.

    3 types:
    1. The controller type
    2. The box to box midfielder
    3. The AM/shadow striker
    Clasie could play for Strootman, but Clasie is no box to box midfielder. Vilhena is that player already.

    So from the selected midfielders:

    Type 1: de Guzman, Clasie
    Type 2: Strootman, Vilhena
    Type 3: Sneijder, vdV and Maher

    So if Strootman is dropped (which will not happen as van Gaal likes him a lot) it will be for Vilhena. The strikers are RvP, Lens and Siem de Jong. Lens can play winger as well of course. Tough in the phase of ball possession he was not that great, out of possession Lens worked quite hard so I heard. It's harder to see that if you are not in the stadium and pay attention to.

    About Strootman. All Strootman's passes are uninteresting and when he risks it is usually a wrong one. What can be interesting is his long ball distribution, especially with a striker like RvP, but somehow he never serves him that way. De Vrij did it once IIRC against Estonia. Meulensteen specially instructs Giggs and Carrick to give those over the defender balls and RvP scored from such a ball in the FA Cup game in the last minutes before knock out against West Ham. Strootman just runs around being a fifth wheel at times and when he arrived that one time in the box to receive a good pass to convert, it goes to fast from him. Could not process the ball. Too fast, no handling speed. Strootman's value becomes bigger the tougher the opponent, but that's reasoned from a physical, enforcing perspective. Winning balls and imposing himself, pressing and chasing. Footballing wise, Strootman appears more and more to be a weak link. Van Gaal loves him for his game reading ability. His ability to understand when to attack and when to stay back. It's a shame though that he does not connect that ability with great follow up quality. His shot is hard, but does not really score from it. It's more a laser than curved which makes it easier to read for a keeper. Is not that good in the small spaces and has low handling speed which is a bad thing for those combinations close to the box.

    Another important thing to account for is that there are players that are good for club, but bad for country. Like Seedorf, RvP and even Bergkamp to some extend. It's dangerous to say this already about a player, but the more bad games he plays for Dutch NT, the more a pattern is visible. Strootman could be a player that is less for country than for club.
     
  5. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    May 18, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    What up guys, Yeah you stole it from me not really but yes, it's either de guzman or clasie, no room for both of them.

    Holland has some issues that need to be addresses, when your on a win streak, you overlook weaknesses that you would try and fix if we had lost.

    Strootman is in bad form, He needs to go, but yeah van gaal loves him

    For Keeper I like Vorm, He is not shaky like stekelenburg now (note the now, when stekelenburg is back to form he's number 1), and his passing his better, we will need him to hit guys on the money in the chest for us to build up play in the back. Vermeer is solid but he's not great with his passing.

    I for sure think it should be clasie to play this game. And on another note which i didn't feel like discussing on that other site, Blind is really not playing the part offensively, He limits the offensive capability, his crossing is not of standard. I feel if he's going to play the way he's going to play, we might as well have a three man defense like ajax of 95. He defends and thats it. Janmaat went up and it was like a mixed 3-3-1-3 or 3-3-4 out of order, it was not looking good.

    I'm worried that i'm not seeing the passing triangles I like. I felt that it was counter productive to have so many guys on the left side of the field. Strootman, sneijder, both occupy the same space

    I think for romania van der vaart is on form and he should be playing, and vlaar should come in with bmi sliding over to left back. We all know sneidjer tends to drift to the left still center but left, we got strootman who also likes to drift left box to box, and Van der vaart drifts right so it's better to have vdv in there to let van persie the ability to move about and face the goal for better shots on goal.


    I'd like to think it should be

    -----------------------------vorm------------------------------
    -----------de vrij------------------------vlaar-----------------
    Janmaat-----------------------------------------------bmi---
    ---------------------------clasie-------------------------------
    -------------VDV---------------------Strootman------------
    Lens-------------------RVP-----------------------------robben
     
  6. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Blind isn't strictly a defender. What he does is pressure high to win the ball back before the opposition can get control (he's the best player at Ajax at doing this) and makes good passes. He definitely doesn't have all the qualities that you would want in a LB (speed, crossing, etc.), but he can be very valuable if you want to control the game.
     
  7. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    The B2B midfielder should be a player with exceptional quickness and stamina that can defend well, and have the ability to run forward, sneak in to the opponent's penalty box, and score. Ramires and Yaya Toure are the picture perfect of B2B midfielder in my view. I definitely don't see Strooman in this category. The closest I can think of in the current Dutch setup is Leroy Fer. Maybe Vilhena is one, though I haven't seen much of him, so I can't comment. I wonder if Maher should learn the trait playing in this position, given that he's not all that deadly playing as an attacking midfielder.

    I see Strootman more of an anchor/controlling midfielder. He has the body and grits to protect the back four. He likes to distribute the ball from deep, and picks up a runner... kind of a poor man's Carrick or Song. If he continues to develop his long-passing skills, I think he will have a niche role in the team. De Guzman is not a bad option in this category.

    Clasie is a wild card. I don't know how he fits in the LvG's setup. He's a deep-lying playmaker. He dictates the game from a withdrawn position, but he can't be expected to tackle and perform other defensive duties, he needs to have a holding midfielder behind him.

    Net, I can see an all-attack formation to chase goals:
    Strootman/JDG - Fer/Vilhena/Maher - Sneijder/Maher.

    When the lead is comfortable, sub off the AM with Clasie to control the game and crowd the own half: Strooman/JDG - Clasie - Fer/Vilhena
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Clasie is the Dutch Pirlo but not as good on dead balls.
     
  9. runnerup

    runnerup Member

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    A box to box midfielder in Oranje? Why? Barcelona doesn't have one, Van Gaal's very own Bayern doesn't.
    I'd say the requested qualities in midfield are passing and scoring, and all of them have to get back into position and posession as quick as possible.
    VdV can score from inside the box, Sneijder from outside, both only play and pass in the front part of play. Strootman can be everywhere and do everything but does mix up his game a bit too much (but can learn), Clasie plays and passes from the back of midfield.
    De Guzman? Righthalf?

    It seems Van Gaal might have the same problem as others had before, with Sneijder and/or VdV. They play at nr. 10, so two midfielders behind them. So no real 4-3-3.

    Other thing: RvP can excel in a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 (Arsenal both), and in ManU's systems. So to fit him in, there are no real system problems. But he can't play with Sneijder, or: with a classic, static playmaker.
     
  10. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Because that's what LvG decided that that's what Oranje is going to play with.


    LvG won't play Sneijder and VdV together. van Gaal likes to play with a shadow striker, so this isn't really a problem. The problem is that he can't see that Strootman isn't fit for the B2B role.
     
  11. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I think a few things are clear. Snijder and VDV & Sneijder and Strootman are not at all compatible.

    For different reasons though, if Sneijder is an Undisputed Starter then the other 2 have no business being there, which compromised the mid-field. In that case, the mid-field should be -

    Sneijder -
    Fer/Van Ginkel
    Clasie/De Guzman


    A De-Guzman/Clasie to distribute the ball from the back and a Fer like player who will play towards the right and add a Physical Presence to the mid-field with good tackling abilities. Van Ginkel can play the role less effectively.

    Clasie is the Dutch Pirlo. He needs 2 B2B's ahead of him winning the balls from him and also who are quick, can combine, play 1-2's, score if needed. Like Vidal and Marchisio.

    Strootman-Fer/De Guzman ahead of Clasie would do well. Strootman-Fer will ahead a physical tough tackling presence to win the ball back and Clasie will distribute it from the back.

    BTW Van Gaal's Bayern had Bastian as B2B player.
     
  12. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    VdV for Sneijder is the only change to the starting XI.
    Also worth noting is the numbers of the players on the subs bench. With the exception of the GKs, the bench numbers are the players' starting XI numbers +10. So from this we can see that Siem de Jong is the backup striker (#9+10)
     
  13. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    nice hit by Strootman

    de Vriij was lucky earlier to not concede a penalty
     
  14. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    jesus, Rvp has to finish that.

    great cross by Lens, like him more and more
     
  15. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Raffie! another dribbler shot but I'll take it
     
  16. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    what a borefest
     
  17. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    offside but nice block by the goalie
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I remember back when Van Gaal was picked as manager of the NT and all the whining that was going on. Well he's picked the young kids for the most part and they have stepped up. I really like this team!!!!
     
  19. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Good game. Clutch goal vdV, RvP not clinical on the easy balls, but makes a hard header and a good penalty. Janmaat keeps amazing me. Makes his mistakes, but still there with a header in the last minute all the way up the field and did attacking wise good things. Lens was also good. Nice crosses, dual power and work rate. So nice to have that good footballer in the team and doing his best. De Vrij brings football. Blind had his nice moments, though did make some mistakes. Robben brings a lot of energy and is able to beat men. De Guzman very quiet this game, but did press here and there. Stroot was nice at times and kept being sharp until the end. Maher started bad, but made up maybe with his shot that turbed into a goal from the rebound. Clasie also quiet but was doing his thing. Finally Vermeer keeping 2 clean sheets. Well done son.
     
  20. Raffie vdV said in an interview that abroad (Germany?) the players are looking at the Orange team with qestion marks in their eyes, as they donot know the most part of the team. Raffie also said that they look at the Eredivisie as a league that isnot considered fully worth like the other leagues and that makes them wonder about those guys in Oranje. Raffie said that he mentions that the Eredivisie is the best league to develop.

    I really wonder if these guys have any brains as this league decades on the run delivers an Orange team that is a match or superior to the top 5 national teams.
     
  21. Quackmore

    Quackmore Member

    Jun 5, 2011
    The Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No one really rates Lens, but so far he has been doing really well in Oranje. I guess Van Gaal does have an eye for these things.

    I was just checking out the rankings and I feel sorry Scotland fans - dead last in their group behind Macedonia and Wales, with just 2 points out of 6 games.
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    More surprises, Mexico is right now out of qualifying for the WC though they probably will make it. In our bracket, Turkey has been disappointing and I'm cheering for Montenegro to win their group over England!!!
     
  23. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Strootman and Lens showed a huge improvement. Kudos to them. Janmaat showed a lot of promise... very active going forward and tracked back well. Could swing in useful crosses, which in and itself is an upgrade from V.d Wiel. BMI and De Vrij, solid partnership- definitely the future! Vermeer, decent. Not convinced with Blind (yet), lack of positional awareness, caught napping a few times. Glad that the veterans (RvP, Raffie, Robben) showed up and did what expected of them. Overall I think the quality of play is steadily improving. I liked the fact that the no. 10 plays much closer to the front line. This releases pressure from RvP.. he's no longer isolated. I am counting for Strootman to keep getting better, being more dominant in midfield and showing who's the boss.
     
  24. Michael Korleone

    May 28, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Does anyone have a link for the video/gif of Janmaat's (?) long cross field pass to Robben in the first half?
     
  25. curbo

    curbo Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    De Vrij - I assume you mean this

    Starting 1:02, Robben clapping while the ball was underway at 1:14
     

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