Roster, Draft Picks, Allocations, Discoveries: What we know, how we know it. [N&A]

Re: Roster, Draft Picks, Allocations, Discoveries: What we know, how we know it. [N&A

I don't think so. Actually, having maintained this thread for a while I've concluded that MLS's player movements are pretty transparent. And even when things are contrived they still follow their own rules. As for the Q2 deal, I'm pretty sure it was a situation where we were out of discovery picks and so KC "discovered" Q2 for us and we traded the draft pick and whatever else it was to KC for Q2.

 

... The Most Arcane Thread Ever :: Now with extra-abstruse esoterica ...

:: Updated :: November 15, 2004 ::

Coach

Head Coach :: Peter Nowak
Assistant Coach :: Tom Soehn
Assistant Coach :: Mark Simpson

Roster :: 28 Maximum :: 24 Currently

Code:

Adu, Freddy		P-40
Stokes, David		P-40
Thompson, Jason		P-40

Kuffour, Nana 		DEV, DISC, T-I

Ara, Kevin		SEN
Carroll, Brian		SEN
Eskandarian, Alecko	SEN
Gros, Joshua		SEN
Hendrickson, Ezra 	SEN
Lawson, Tim		SEN
Namoff, Bryan		SEN
Olsen, Ben		SEN
Perkins, Troy		SEN
Petke, Mike		SEN
Prideaux, Brandon	SEN
Quaranta, Santino	SEN
Stewart, Earnie		SEN
Rimando, Nick		SEN

Kovalenko, Dema		SEN, GC
Martins, Thiago 	SEN, GC

Quintanilla, Eliseo	SEN, DISC, T-I

Gomez, Christian	SEN, DISC, S-I 
Moreno, Jaime		SEN, S-I
Nelsen, Ryan		SEN, S-I

Roster Key

Note 1 :: The information here will be provisional for a while until MLS discloses the 2005 roster rules. Here's one article with a few updated details. I'll update this section as information becomes available. In the absence of new information, I'm assuming the old rules still apply.

DEV = Developmental (DEV + P-40 = 6 players max)
P-40 = Project 40 (P-40 + DEV = 6 players max)
DISC = Discovery Player (4 senior players max, may add max 2 senior discoveries per year, unlimited developmental discoveries)
GC = Green Card
SEN = Counts against the senior roster (18 players max)
S-I = Senior International (4 players max)
T-I = Transitional International (3 players max, 5 players max on expansion teams for first two season)
???? = In limbo. Likely will sign, but hasn't yet officially.

Note 1 :: We have 24 players. 4 are roster protected, and 20 are senior team.

Note 2 :: We can acquire four more senior team player, one of which may be a senior international.

Note 3 :: The injured reserve system has reportedly been ended. However, Quintanilla and Martins were out for the season, and there's word that Lawson was acquired as a replacement for Martins as if he'd been put on injured reserve. But the details of the season ending injury system, as well as the details of Lawson's acquisition aren't 100% clear yet. There's some suggestion that although MLS has ended the old injured reserve system (you can get another player, but you get no additional money), has been replaced with a system whereby you can replace and injured player, but you get no additional money (just don't call it injured reserve). Either way, Lawson was acquired via this system to replace Martins, and he effectively occupied the Martins's roster spot last season. Now that the season is over I've removed the note about Martin's being on whatever replaced injured reserve.

Draft Picks

:: 2005 ::

1st Round :: Natural pick to MetroStars for rights to Jaime Moreno. See note 2.
2nd Round :: Natural pick to KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara). Acquired the rights to Colorado's highest second round pick in exchange for the rights to a discovery selection. See the discovery section below.
3rd Round :: Natural pick to KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara).
4th Round :: Natural pick. See note 5.
5th Round :: Natural pick to Dallas for rights to Ezra Hendrickson. See note 5.
6th Round :: Natural pick to Dallas for rights to Jason Thompson. See note 4.

:: 2006 ::

1st Round :: Natural pick.
2nd Round :: Natural pick.
3rd Round :: Natural pick.
4th Round :: Natural pick to Dallas in trade for Jason Thompson.
5th Round :: Natural pick.
6th Round :: Natural pick.

Note 1 :: The 2004 24th pick was originally our natural pick. It was dealt to KC as part of the deal that brought Quintanilla to DC United. The pick was then traded back to us on draft day for our natural 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2005. Hence, it's now effectively as if the Quintanilla deal was for the 2005 2nd and 3rd round picks. We have now regained one of these lost picks via a trade with Colorado for the rights to a DC United discovery player. Also, see note 2.

Note 2 :: See the future considerations section below. According to Steven Goff "If Moreno plays in 20 of 30 regular season games, the MetroStars will receive United's first-round pick. Otherwise, they would get a second- or third-round pick."

Note 3 :: DC United may owe San Jose a conditional 2005 draft pick for Devin Barclay. It is unknown what the conditions were, and whether those conditions were met.

Note 4 :: According to Tobias Lopez of the Star Telegram "The Burn traded forward Jason Thompson to D.C. United for a fourth-round pick in the 2006 draft and a conditional pick in 2005. If Thompson appears in seven or more matches, the 2005 pick is a fifth-rounder. If not, it's a sixth-round pick. "

Note 5 :: There's some confusion about the 2005 fourth and fifth round picks. According to the original deal DC owes Dallas the fifth round pick and future considerations for the rights to Ezra Hendrickson. However, Steven Goff reports that "it appears the club will only have a second- and fifth-round pick -- the result of several trades the past two years." This suggests that Dallas has collected on those future considerations to move up to the fourth round selection. I'm adding this note while we're waiting for clarification on this question.

Allocations

Note 1:: DC United will receive a major player allocation from the league following Bobby Convey's transfer to Reading.

Note 2 :: It was presumed that we would get one for Etcheverry, but nothing has ever been said officially on this matter. If we do it will almost certainly (95% positive) go to Dallas for the future considerations we owe them for the number one overall draft pick. This story supports that idea, and there's a quote from a "top MLS official" here stating that "The allocation that (United) will get is for Marco." Still, there's be no public notice about an allocation since Etcheverry's retirement.

Discoveries

The regulations that began the 2004 season state that MLS teams can have a maximum of four discovery players on their senior rosters at any time, and that teams may add a maximum of two discovery players to their senior rosters a year. However, sometime during the season the regulations were apparently changed to provide for three discovery options per season. Peter Wilt confirms this change. The regulations also state that teams have unlimited discovery opportunities for developmental players. What does this mean for DC United?

Currently Quintanilla and Gomez are the only senior team discovery player on the roster. Kuffour is a discovery player as well, but he's on a developmental contract. So his signing doesn't count against the maximum of four on the senior team, or the maximum of two discovery signings per year. However, we traded the rights to one of this year's discovery players to Colorado in exchange for Colorado's highest second round selection in the 2005 MLS SuperDraft. (See the draft section above.) Because of this trade we only had one senior team discovery left this year. That was used for Gomez. Apparently Lawson is not considered a discovery player because he was a domestic player acquired to replace another domestic player (Martins) with a season ending injury.

The bottom line is that we currently have three discovery players on the roster, but only two are on the senior team, and it appears on this evidence that we can add one more senior discovery in 2004. This is confirmed by Dave Kasper who has stated that we still have one discovery option left.

There remains considerable debate about how much money we have available to us to use towards transfer fees etc. See page 2 of this thread. There's also some suggestion that the money has been increased. Going on the old information, these are the basics as best as I can determine. Teams have $100K to use as transfer fees on discovery players. A team can use up to three years worth of fees at one time (a special discovery). Unspent money is lost. DCUnited used 2002, 2003 and 2004's transfer money to acquire Reyes. Whether we now have the 2005 and 2006 money available is uncertain. However, on occasion alternative arrangements can be made. Q2 was a special discovery and playing a friendly against his old team paid a portion of his transfer fee. Suffice it to say nobody really knows how these work or what our current discovery situation is.

Future Considerations

Note 1 :: The Columbus Crew owe DC United future considerations for Devin Barclay.

Note 2 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to Dallas for 2004 SuperDraft first overall pick. It is widely believed that these future considerations amount to a major player allocation.

Note 3 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to the MetroStars for the rights to Jaime Moreno. According to Steven Goff, "If Moreno plays in 20 of 30 regular season games, the MetroStars will receive United's first-round pick. Otherwise, they would get a second- or third-round pick."

Note 4 :: Future considerations owed by Dallas to DC United for the rights to Milton Reyes. According to DCUnited.com "Additional considerations will apply if Reyes is added to the 2004 final roster for Dallas."

Note 5 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to Dallas for the rights to Ezra Hendrickson.

Note 6 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to Dallas for Jason Thompson. These future considerations are likely either a 5th or 6th round pick in the 2005 SuperDraft. See the draft section above for more on that.

Useful Links

DC United Transactions

MLS Regulations

DC United Roster (DCUnited.com/MLSNet)

Key Dates on the 2004 MLS Competition Calendar

Expansion Draft Rules

... ... ...

I will update this post/thread as more information becomes available and as corrections and additions are made.

 

... mod's note ...

I did a full update this time in light of Cerritos being waived. I think everything is up to date, but if you've got corrections and additions please post them in this thread. They're always much appreciated.

As always, if you're looking for the most recent information compiled just click the link in the first post of this thread. I keep it updated to link to the most recent information.

Thanks,

 

Re: ... mod's note ...

Updated for the Hendrickson acquisition.

 

I forgot about the Warren-Perkins update. Thanks for the reminder. It's changed above. But where did you read that Kuffour has been signed? As of yesterday I thought he was still technically just on trial.

 

There were some paperwork glitches after that. There's a note to that effect above. He's still on trial as of yesterday.

 

Alright, here's another update ... This one was really confusing, but I learned some things putting it together.

I'd appreciate it if someone would double check the draft section and the first three paragraphs of the discovery section. I think everything is correct, but I just want to make sure.

The latest version ::
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2696803#post2696803

 

It's been suggested that Thiago Martins has been place on IR. I haven't seen an press to that effect though. Did I miss something?

Also, for future reference:

:: The Expansion Draft Rules ::

- Each team will be allowed to protect 12 players.
- Each team may leave unprotected only one senior international.
- Each team may lose no more than three players in the Expansion Draft.
- After a player has been selected by an existing team, such team shall have the right to protect an additional player.

From Connolly on MLSNet

The expansion draft will take place in November.

 

What lends credence for me is the fact that these rules are different from the rules last time around. Rosters were only 20 (!) back then, and you had to place at least 10 players into the expansion pool. Now rosters are 24 and you can protect 12. What's interesting though is that it sounds like you can protect 12 even if you're carrying fewer than 24 players. The way it's phrased it sounds like there's no quota. With cuts and retirements and transfers I imagine, come November, we'll have fewer than 24 on our roster. We should be able to protect most all of our critical players. For example, if the expansion draft were held today we could protect 12 of our 22 players. That would leave 10 available for the draft. But another MLS team with a full roster of 24 would end up placing 12 players into the expansion draft. Phrasing it the way Connolly did (and who knows if it's 100% accurate) would allow teams with smaller rosters greater ability to protect their core players.

Here's more on the rules last time around.

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78863

 

Connolly was accurate, and it's all confirmed here: http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20040714&content_id=8259&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

 

Re: ... The Most Arcane Thread Ever :: Now with extra-abstruse esoterica ...

Yes, and I'll get to it tonight.

 

Updated :: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2696803#post2696803

I think it's correct. Check out the future considerations section. Notice a pattern?

 

Good question, but I don't know the answer.
Martins came in as roster relief.
Did Delgado come in as roster relief too?