Ronaldo vrs Michael vick, whos a better athlete?

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by FenoFutbol, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Brian Walker

    Brian Walker New Member

    Aug 19, 2006
    I agree! Each is a great athlete in his respective sport. I doubt Ronaldo could throw a football over 40 yards accurately. I also doubt that Vick could dribble a soccer ball with his feet while evading defenders with the speed and grace of Ronaldo! And, do it for 45 minutes non-stop! It is impossible to determine who is the better athlete - American football player or World football player? You would be better comparing Vick to some of the great quarterbacks of today or in the past like Bart Star, Kenny Stabler, YA Title, Joe Montana, etc.. And compare Ronaldo to players such as Pele, Johan Cruyff, Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst, Paulo Rossi, etc.. You could get a lot better debates over these comparisons I'll bet!
  2. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory, yes, they'd be fast enough, but the reality is that world class sprinting requires 100 meters (not 36.6) and that most of these guys would fade dramatically over the full distance. That's why world class sprinters are world class sprinters. They are trained to accelerate to, and remain at, top speed for 100 meters. The NFL is interested in speed over short bursts and the ability to accelerate.
    The fact remains, many of these guys (wide receivers, especially) were running 10.2-10.8 100's on their high school and college track teams, so having this kind of speed isn't that farfetched.
    So...maybe the 40 times are fudged a bit. But, how many soccer players could bench press 225# once, let alone 20 or 30 times?

    As far as Hejduk v. Robben...NFL/College scouts have a name for it. Football speed. Some guys are actually faster in pads, on the field, than they are in a sprint. I watched Keith McCants (a 252# LB @ Alabama) run down a wide receiver that no one on the field was supposed to be able to catch, and jerk him to the ground by his collar.
  3. sundayparkplayer

    Feb 8, 2006
    I think Kyle Rote Jr. settled this type of debate a few years ago. Remember?
  4. juventino3

    juventino3 Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    Thank God someone said it. I just don't know how anybody can think football is better then soccer. Football players are athletes and that's all they are. Interchangeable pieces that a great coach can manipulate as he pleases. Soccer is about skill, creativity, and stamina. Football players with creativty and vision are such a rarity. That's why guys like Barry Sander, Tomlinson, and Bush are such a big deal. Soccer players make decisions for themselves on the field. They don't have some coach talking into their helmet from the sideline. Even looking at these clips of Ronaldo and Vick, one is blown away with the explosiveness and skill of Ronaldo in his prime. The clips of Vick were, eh not all that. I know he can bench more, but I don't see him being the better athlete than Ronaldo in his prime.
  5. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Once again for the record, attempting to compare these two is useless. You might as well compare Tiki and Ronde Barber. Ronaldo and Vick play completely different team sports that require completely different skill sets. Both athletes are physical and make on the go decisions that can wow the crowd if you are able to appreciate the sport.

    It doesn't happen often, but a Hokie is going to have to partially agree with a Mountaineer. Vick had and continues to have an impact on Tech, but he didn't put Tech on the map, Beamer did. Also, Vick's individual success in Atlanta has won games as has Ronaldo's individual talent, but with any team sport it is hard to compare and contrast success when there are 10 other guys on the field. BTW, we all could tell you were a Mountaineer even without the youtube clips...

    : Be careful not to be too defensive since you are the one who posed the question.:rolleyes: I've seen your posts in other threads before and believe you to be a good-natured person who doesn't quite get American sports. You like to argue that Americans generally don't get soccer, but the same thing could be said of much of the rest of the world about American athletes in football and even basketball. Not all football players are fat and out of shape. It's a careful balance between size and skill. Any given teams wide receivers, running backs, and defensive secondary are probably faster than the fastest person on most soccer teams. Even the big blockers who appear to most to just be guys who are big to take up space are more athletic than many NFL fans will admit. Does this mean the skill players would be good soccer players? No. As with any profession it takes time and practice to develop the natural ability and talent. Generally, skill position players in the NFL are the best athletes on the team. Many of these athletes do have backgrounds in other sports. Many of these players were also baseball players in the past. It's also not uncommon for them to have track and field as well as basketball backgrounds. While a few posters will argue other sports don't require the thought or skill that soccer does, I'd say those people are no better than the Americans who look down on soccer because they think the players are weak. I think most American BS posters acknowledge there is an entirely different skill set to these other sports and that should not diminish the work of those individuals. Elite athletes are great athletes regardless of sport.

    Considering they almost landed in your backyard, I hope you're a Skins fan juventino3.
  6. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because running with a ball at your feet doesn't require an immense amount of athletic talent. It requires an immense amount of coordination and skill. Now, the better athletes may run faster, but as Feno pointed out, no one scored more that Ronaldo in the World Cup. If it were all about pure athleticism, Djibril Cisse' would be on that list. American football requires strength and athleticism, but not as much skill. Golf requires an incredible amount of skill, but nowhere near the amount of strength or athleticism. Soccer, in my estimation, is the centerpoint. It is the ultimate melding of athleticism and skill and ability.
    There was a poster on here with the handle Brendaninho (sp?) who was talking about his two sons. His older son is the better athlete. Bigger, faster and stronger. His younger son is the better soccer player. He is smaller and nowhere near as fast or strong, but he has the ability to manipulate the ball the ball that makes him a better soccer player than his brother.
  7. ss1970

    ss1970 New Member

    Aug 9, 2006
    Huntington WV

    ????It's kind of fun to debate with you because you never make any sense. Mike Tyson was plenty big, well over 200lbs and a much larger heavy weight boxer than Evander Holyfield. When Tyson was beating bigger guys, then he clearly was either stronger, faster, or had more skills. That's the boxing "trueism". If all things were equal, and the bigger guy had the same skill set that Tyson had, but was bigger, faster, stronger then Tyson would have lost. A good example in boxing is Holyfield. He was hardly ever larger than his opponent, and was barely able to qualify as a heavyweight...but his superior boxing skills leveled the playing field or tipped that field in his favor. Same with Roy Jones, Jr. a brilliant fighter that can handle larger boxers because of his superiour skills. As for polar bears and lyons?????WTF??? Do you think the runner in the clip was a momma's boy?

    [I]It doesn't happen often, but a Hokie is going to have to partially agree with a Mountaineer[/I]
    Shocking, I really hate to see the series go.

    but he didn't put Tech on the map, Beamer did
    Beamer Ball, love it or hate it the special teams are something.

    BTW, we all could tell you were a Mountaineer even without the youtube clips...

    "Know everyone knows that I'm a Mountaineer!"

    So I leave one lousy "K" in the sentence, even Mountaineer's make little mistakes sometimes:D

    Thank God someone said it. I just don't know how anybody can think football is better then soccer. Football players are athletes and that's all they are. Interchangeable pieces that a great coach can manipulate as he pleases. Soccer is about skill, creativity, and stamina.
    Again, I'm new to the sport of soccer, so I probably shouldn't even be adding my thoughts on this message board, but it's clear that you no very little about american football played at the higher levels. Football players are athletes that work on certain skill sets, just like soccer players. Tell me a good football player at any skill position that doesn't have skill, creativity and stamina. The ones that you refered to, like Barry Sanders, are the truely gifted athletes...and you're right, there are fewer of them...just like there a fewer Ronoldo's playing soccer.
  8. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    You say i don't know what i am talking about? Im prob the most competitive kid you'll ever meet.

    Yes Tyson was smaller than most boxers he would knock tha f.. out of anybody. Yes Michael Jordan wasnt the tallest or the strongest basketball player either... you got the point... is not who is bigger or stronger... is who is able to use his athletic abilities and beat the crap out of your opponents!

    I asked what have Vick ever won? nobody answered that one?

    You could be the most "athletic" guy on earth, but if you never win crap, whos is going to admire you?

    Ronaldo with his ahtletic ability won a world championship, 3 times the best soccer player on earth, considered unnestopabble on his prime, nobody could stop Ronaldo back in the days, scoring an avereage of 35 goals per season in the most competitive soccer leagues in the world (Spanish, Italian, Brazilian).

    The best athletes are the ones that win championships, if Vick never won anything... lets bring a real contender for Ronaldo, maybe Michael Jordan?

    whats up? :cool:
  9. Brendaninho

    Brendaninho New Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Oh noooooooo. The weekly Soccer vs Athlete debate in a new form. Arrrrgh.

    Well, I'll say this though....the only thing they both have in common is mailing it in and not trying their best. We've seen Ronaldo do it, and we have heard Vick admit to it. Make me sick, gifted athletes, world at their finger tips, playing a game for a job, and don't give it their all. I have no time for either of them.
  10. dieselboy77

    dieselboy77 New Member

    Mar 21, 2005
    Ashtabula, Ohio
    Nat'l Team:
    why are we comparing sports to others ? I hate it when people tell me that baseball is harder becouse its pretty difficoult to hit a 90+ fast ball, however those baseball players practice for years so for them isn't too hard to hit a 90+ mph fastball. Same with Football, best football players come from Brazil becouse they been playing football since they were 6, American footballers arent better then football players, they go to the gym and work out to be 300
    lbs so of course they will knock smaller guys over but it doesnt make them a better athletes then football player.
  11. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ronaldo played on teams with incredible talent around him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's never played for a team that wasn't the biggest spenders in the league.

    If you want to go that route, you just proved Michael Jordan is the best. He won three titles and then retired. The Bulls won jack-shit without him. Then, he came back and "they" won three more.

    He damn near won the Sugar Bowl against Florida State...who happen to have one of the best/fastest defenses in college football, year in, year out...almost completely by himself.
  12. juventino3

    juventino3 Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    Actually my father has been a season ticket holder for the last 10 years, so I go to a couple of games a year. I'm actually a pretty big football fan. After soccer, it's my favorite professional sport. That being said, there are things that bother me about it. The length of the games being one. Another being the constant stoppages in play, commercial timeouts, etc. I know the refs played a huge part in ruining some World Cup games, but it seems like everytime I watch an NFL game, the refs screw some call up that dramatically changes the outcome of the game. Some of the rules are a bit too arbitrary considering there are infractions going on all the time. There is no doubt that it's a very athletic sport. I just feel that soccer combines athleticism with more skill, tempo, and artistry. Just my humble opinion folks.
  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep... every team that Ronaldo has ever played for (both Brazil and his club teams) would have been a championship contender without him. Arguably Brazil '98 might even have been a better team without Ronaldo than with him.
  14. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    so ronaldos awards are only bc of his teammates.

    Vick won some college crap, i though we were talking big boys in here. Vick can prob be compared to Adriano.

    Lets talk big guys, I though Vick was like a big deal on NFL.

    Jordan may go in the category of Pele.
    Tyson and Maradona I guess, both little guys that would knock the f.. out of their big opponents.

    Ronaldo vrs Ali maybe? Vick is out, if he won only a sugar bowl or whatever that is, i think is not even the NCAA championship, come on now. This is world competition not college kids.
  15. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vick is considered one of the best athletes in the NFL, but he's only a little better than average as a player. Know the difference.
  16. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. But those records would certainly be more impressive if he had played for Croatia and Fulham.
    Emmitt Smith rushed for more yards than any other running back in the history of the NFL, but if you ask most fans who the best running back in history is, you'll hear Payton and Sanders a lot more often.
    Why? Emmitt Smith ran behind one of the best lines in the league. He also ran behind one of the best blocking fullbacks in the league and had a supporting cast of Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin.
    Walter Payton was in the twilght of his career when the Bears won the Super Bowl.
    Barry Sanders was on a horrible team that made their only playoff appearances due to his running.
  17. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    Remember I said Im prob the most competitive kids you'll ever met?

    I'll give you a good example of it.

    To play with the big boys, you've got to be one of them, other than that, nobody would give a crap about you. You either have to play with them, or againts them and actually beat them.

    The argument of Maradona being better than Pele would never end bc Maradona won a WCC with an Argentinian team that had almost "nobody" in their line up.

    Pele in the other hand played for the "dream team" in Brazil.

    Competitive people have come out with the question.

    Whats harder, to be the best among the best or to be the best on a team of "nobodies."

    Well it is a lot harder to be the best with the best, look what happened to David Beckam that was a Mega Super Star on EPL, he went to Real Madrid where the big boys are, and did nothing, BarbieBeckam was just another player on the team of Ronaldos and Zidanes.

    It is really hard to be the best when you play with the best. There comes the other arguement that is also hard to win championships with a team of nobodies. Maradona did a lot with Napoli, whos Napoli? Then he went to Barcelona and was still the best!

    Ronaldo is the best with the best and made the Brazilian team when he was only 17, the one that won USA 94. Then he took Brazil to the championship in 98 being unnostopable. Ronaldo had a convulsion before the France game, Ronaldo was out, and Brazil lost 3-0... so I guess any of "those team would win anything withouth Ronaldo."

    Ronaldo came back in Japan 2002 scoring the two winning goals in the Championship... you know you recognize who the best player is when it comes to important games... Ronaldinho went down after the Germany 06.

    So yeah Ronaldo is a heck of a player, he was injured bc nobody could stop him, but after a being with a broken foot for a long time, he came back to be the best again, don't tell me Ronaldos success is bc of his teammates.

    You tell me Eto, Nistelroy, and maybe even Pele I'll recognize that. But Ronaldo beat the crap out defenders himself, most of Ronaldos goals are awesome, his speed, his pace and his dribbing ability put him among the best of all time.

    So yeah bring another contender for Ronaldo, Vick is out, remember we are talking big boys now, and yes the best athletes are the ones that win Championship, in soccer we also had incredible player that never won anything so they cannot be considered as the best, the Magician Gonzalez for example whos was compared to Maradona, but he never won anything.

    Haha I love it, finally soccer is being talked by competitive americans and not by mommis boys that have a poster of BarbieBeckam in their room :cool:
  18. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Michael Jordan. Six NBA Titles, an NCAA National Championship and at least one Olympic Gold Medal. And, he's not only one of the best offensive players to ever step on the court...he was one of the best on defense too.
    A defensive mid-fielder with a penchant for scoring lots of goals, if you will.

    Five-time NBA Most Valuable Player (1987-88, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1995-96, 1997-98)

    Ten-time All-NBA First Team selection (1986-87 to 1992-93, 1995-96 to 1997-98)

    Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"

    A member of six Chicago Bulls NBA championship teams (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97 and 1997-98)

    Six-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player

    The 1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year and record nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team selection (1987-88 to 1992-93, 1995-96 to 1997-98)

    Entering 2002-03, ranked first in NBA history in scoring average (31.0 ppg) second in steals (2,391)
    fourth in points (30,652) and in field-goals made (11,513)
    fifth in free-throws made (7,061)
    sixth in field-goals attempted (23,010)
    eighth in free-throws attempted (8,448)

    Closed the 1997-98 season as the Bulls' all-time franchise leader in points, rebounds (5,836), assists (5,012), steals, games (930), field-goals made and attempted and free-throws made and attempted (8,115)

    Holds the NBA record for most seasons leading the league in scoring (10)

    Shares the NBA record with Wilt Chamberlain for most consecutive seasons leading the league in scoring (seven, 1986-87 to 1992-93)

    Holds the NBA record for most consecutive games scoring in double-digits

    Holds the NBA record for most seasons leading the league in field-goals made (10) and attempted (10)

    Led the NBA in steals in 1987-88 (3.16 spg), 1989-90 (2.77 spg) and 1992-93 (2.83 spg)

    Holds the NBA single-game records for most free-throws made in one half (20 against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92) and most most free-throws attempted in one half (23 in the same game)

    Shares the NBA single-game records for most free-throws made in one quarter (14 against the Utah Jazz on 11/15/89 and against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92) and most free-throws attempted in one quarter (23 against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92)

    Holds the NBA Finals record for highest single-series scoring average (41.0 ppg in 1993)

    Entering the 2002-03 season, ranks as the all-time NBA Finals leader in three-pointers made (42), second in three-point attempts (114), third in points
    (1,176), fourth in steals (62), fifth in field-goals made (438), sixth in assists
    (209) and free-throws made (258), seventh in field-goals attempted (911) and eighth in free-throws attempted (320)

    Holds the NBA Playoffs record for highest career scoring average (33.4 ppg)

    Established an NBA Playoffs record with 63 points against the Boston Celtics on 5/20/86

    Entering the 2002-03 season ranks as the all-time NBA Playoffs leader in field-goals attempted (4,497), free-throws made (1,463) and attempted (1,766), second in steals (376) and field-goals made (2,188), fifth in assists (1,022), seventh in three-point attempts (446) and ninth in three-pointers made

    Recorded two playoff career triple-doubles, both against the New York Knicks (5/9/89 and 6/2/93)

    Participated in 13 NBA All-Star Games (1985, 1987-1993, 1996-98, 2002-03), starting 13 times, and missed another due to injury

    Named the MVP of the 1988, 1996 and 1998 NBA All-Star Games

    All-time NBA All-Star Game leader in steals (35) and ranks second in field-goal attempts (206), third in points (242), fourth in scoring average (20.2 ppg), and eighth in assists (52)

    Notched the first triple-double in All-Star Game history, with 14 points, 11 rebounds and 11 assists, in the 1997 NBA All-Star Game in Cleveland
    Won the Slam Dunk Contest in 1987 and 1988, also participating in 1985

    Notched his 28th career triple-double, with 30 points, 11 rebounds and 10 assists, against the Toronto Raptors on 4/14/97

    Returned from retirement against the Indiana Pacers on 3/19/95 and posted 19 points, six rebounds, six assists and three steals in 43 minutes
  19. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    Michael Jordan used to be my hero as a kid. I think Michael Jordan was awarded by the athlete of the century in the US if not, he should be.

    The worlds athlete of the century is my man Pele, see soccer goes first and then Basketball, I still like American football better than basketball though.

    I consider soccer as the sport of the smart, cocky man. Football is the sport of the strong man, and basketball of the tall man. Soccer goes on top though, basically soccer if for the "perfect" man, not too big, not too strong, good looking and smart :cool:

    This my homie Pele,

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    (Redirected from Pele)
    Jump to: navigation, search
    Pele redirects here. For other use of the word Pele, see Pele (disambiguation).
    Personal information
    Full name Edson Arantes do Nascimento
    Date of birth October 23, 1940
    Place of birth Três Corações (MG), Brazil
    Nickname O Rei (The King),
    Pérola Negra (The Black Pearl),
    Dico (by his family)
    Position Forward
    Youth clubs
    1952-1956 Bauru EC
    Professional clubs*
    Years Club Apps (goals)
    1975-1977 Santos FC
    Cosmos 605 (589)[1]
    64 (37)

    National team
    1956-1971 Brazil 92 (77)
    * Professional club appearances and goals
    counted for the domestic league only.

    Edson Arantes do Nascimento, KBE (born October 23, 1940 in Três Corações, Brazil), best known by his nickname Pelé, is a former Brazilian football player who is regarded by many as the greatest player of all time.[citation needed]

    Pelé played as an inside forward, striker, and what today would be referred to as the playmaker position. It is controversially quoted that he scored 1,281 goals during his career (see statistics, below). Pelé's technique and natural athleticism have been universally praised: he was an exceptionally prolific goalscorer and was renowned for his dribbling and passing, as well as his pace, strong shot and an exceptional heading ability for a man of average Brazilian height. His most spectacular move was probably the "bicycle kick".

    Pelé is the only footballer ever to win three World Cup trophies. His number 10 shirt has become traditional among creative attacking midfielders and forwards, and many of the sport's great players have since worn it.

    Pelé has been married twice: first in 1966, to Rosemeri, with whom he had two children. This marriage ended in divorce in 1978. He married Assiria on April 30, 1994 and the couple have two children. Since his full retirement in 1977 Pelé has been an ambassador for football and has also undertaken various acting roles and commercial ventures.

    Contents [hide]
    1 Early life
    2 Club career
    2.1 Santos
    2.2 New York Cosmos
    3 National team career
    3.1 1958 World Cup
    3.2 1962 World Cup
    3.3 1966 World Cup
    3.4 1970 World Cup
    4 Honours
    4.1 Santos
    4.2 New York Cosmos
    4.3 Brazil
    4.4 Other
    5 Career Statistics
    5.1 Goalscoring and appearance record
    5.2 Other records
    6 After football
    7 See also
    8 References and notes
    9 External links

    Early life
    Pelé was born in Três Corações, Minas Gerais, Brazil, the son of Fluminense footballer Dondinho.[2] He was named after American inventor Thomas Edison,[3] and was originally nicknamed Dico by his family.[2][4][5] He did not receive the nickname "Pelé" until his school days, when it is claimed he was given it because of his pronunciation of the name of his favourite player, Sao Paulo goalkeeper Bilé.[5] He originally disliked the nickname, and was once suspended from school for punching the classmate that coined it.[6] However, the more he complained the more he was called by it. In his autobiography, Pelé stated he had no idea what the name means, nor did his old friends.[2] Apart from the assertion that the name is derived from that of Bilé, the word has no known meaning. However, it resembles the Irish language word 'Peile', meaning football, and the Hebrew word פֶּלֶא, meaning "wonder".[7]

    Growing up in poverty in Bauru, São Paulo, Pelé could not afford a football and usually played with either a sock stuffed with newspaper, tied with a string[2] or a grapefruit.[8] At the age of 11, Pelé was scouted by Brazilian legend Waldemar de Brito and was invited to join de Brito's amateur team, Clube Atlético Bauru.[8]

    Club career
    In 1956, Waldemar de Brito took Pelé to São Paulo, an industrial and port town in São Paulo State in eastern Brazil, to try out for professional club Santos Futebol Clube. De Brito told the directors at Santos that the 16-year-old would be "the greatest football player in the world." [citation needed]

    During his time at Santos, Pelé played alongside many gifted players, including Zito, Pepe and Coutinho; the latter partnered him in numerous one-two plays, attacks, and goals.

    Pelé made his debut for Santos in 1956, scoring one goal in a 7-1 friendly victory over Corinthians. When the 1957 season started, Pelé was given a starting place in the first team and, at the age of just 16, became the top scorer in the league. Just ten months after signing professionally, the teenager was called up to the Brazil national team. After the World Cup in 1962, wealthy European clubs offered massive fees to sign the young player, but the government of Brazil declared Pelé an "official national treasure" to prevent him from being transferred out of the country.[9]

    On November 19, 1969, Pelé scored his 1000th goal in all competitions. This was a highly anticipated moment in Brazil.[3] The goal, called popularly O Milésimo (The Thousandth), occured in a match against Vasco da Gama, when Pelé scored a penalty kick, at the Maracanã Stadium.[3]

    Pelé states that his most beautiful goal was scored at Rua Javari stadium on a Campeonato Paulista match against Sao Paulo rivals Juventus on August 2, 1959. As there is no video footage of this match, Pelé asked that a computer animation be made of this specific goal.[3] In March 1961, Pelé scored the gol de placa (goal worthy of a plaque), a goal against Fluminense at the Maracanã which was regarded as so spectacular that a plaque was commissioned with a dedication to the most beautiful goal in the history of the Maracanã.[10]

    In 1967, the two factions involved in the Nigerian Civil War agreed to a 48-hour ceasefire so they could watch Pelé play an exhibition game in Lagos.[11]

    In a Santos - Cruzeiro match, played in 1968, Pelé broke the leg of Procópio.[12]

    New York Cosmos
    After his retirement from Brazilian club football on 2 October 1974, Pelé joined the New York Cosmos of the North American Soccer League. A reported $7,000,000 contract for three years made him the highest-paid football player of the North American Soccer League.[13]

    During the three seasons he played for the Cosmos, he was named in the annual NASL First Team: the 11 best players of a particular season. He was also named as the league's most valuable player in 1976. His lucrative contract for the Cosmos meant that Pelé had to play in the regular U.S. NASL season but also travel the world playing many exhibition games. During the three years Pelé played for Cosmos, he played matches in countries such as China, Japan, Sweden, Bermuda and Uganda. In his final year as a professional player, the Cosmos won the 1977 NASL Championship. During that season, Pelé was joined by fellow Brazilian Carlos Alberto, Turkish panthera goalkeeper Yasin Ozdenak and "the Kaiser", Franz Beckenbauer.

    He played his last game as a professional in a friendly match on October 1, 1977, in front of a capacity crowd at Giants Stadium against his old club, Santos; he played the first half with the Cosmos and the second half with Santos. The exhibition game was sold out six weeks beforehand. Pelé did appear in a few friendly games for the Cosmos after he retired in 1977. Due to falling attendance, the Cosmos tried to bring Pelé out of retirement a second time, but he declined.

    National team career
    Pelé's first international match was a 2-1 victory against Argentina on July 7, 1957. In that match, he scored his first goal for Brazil, three months before his 17th birthday.

    1958 World Cup
    His World Cup debut was against the USSR in the first round of the 1958 FIFA World Cup. He was the youngest player of the tournament, and at the time the youngest ever to play in the World Cup. He scored his first World Cup goal against Wales in quarterfinals, the only goal of the match, to help Brazil advance to semifinals, against France. In that semifinal, Brazil was leading 2-1 at halftime, and then Pelé scored a hat-trick, becoming the youngest in World Cup history to do so.

    On 19 June 1958 Pelé became the youngest player to play in a World Cup final match at 17 years and 239 days. He scored two goals in the final as Brazil beat Sweden 5-2. His first goal, a lob over a defender followed by a precise volley shot, was selected as one of the best goals in the history of the World Cup. When the match ended, he passed out on the field, and had to be attended by the medical staff.[3] He then recovered, and was visibly compelled by the victory, in tears as being congratulated by his teammates. He finished the tournament with six goals in four matches played, tied for second place, behind record-breaker Just Fontaine.

    1962 World Cup
    In the first match of the 1962 World Cup, against Mexico, Pelé assisted the first goal and then scored the final 2-0 after a run past three defenders. He injured himself while attempting a long-range shot against Czechoslovakia.[3] This would keep him out of the rest of the tournament, and forced coach Aymoré Moreira to make his only lineup change of the tournament. The substitute was Amarildo, who had a good performance in the tournament; it was, however, Garrincha, who would take the leading role and carried Brazil to their second World Cup title.

    In a friendly match played in 1965, Pelé broke the leg of West Germany player Kiesman; an action which many believed to be intentional.[12][14]

    1966 World Cup
    The 1966 tournament was remembered for its excessive physical play, and Pelé was one of the victims of such play. After becoming the first player ever to score in three World Cups, with a direct free kick against Bulgaria, he had to rest, due to tiredness,[15] for the match against Hungary, which Brazil lost 1-3. He then faced Portugal, and several violent tackles by the Portuguese defenders caused him to leave the match and the tournament. Brazil lost that match and was eliminated in the first round of the World Cup for the first time since 1934. After the tournament, Pelé declared that he did not wish to play in the World Cup again.[3]

    1970 World Cup
    When Pelé was called to the national team in early 1969, he first refused, but then accepted and played in six World Cup qualifying matches, scoring six goals. The 1970 tournament in Mexico was to be Pelé's last.

    The 1970 squad featured major changes in relation to the 1966 squad. Players like Garrincha, Nilton Santos, Djalma Santos, and Gilmar had already retired, but the team, with Pelé, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Gérson, Tostão, and Clodoaldo, is widely considered one of the greatest football teams ever.[citation needed]

    In the first match, against Czechoslovakia, Pelé scored the 2-1 after controlling Gerson's pass with his chest. Brazil won the match, 4-1. On the first half of the match against England, he nearly scored with a header that was spectacularly saved by Gordon Banks. On the second half, he assisted Jairzinho for the only goal of the match. Against Romania, he opened the score on a direct free kick goal, a strong strike with the outside of his right foot. Later on the match he scored again to put the score 3-1. Brazil won by a final score of 3-2. In quarterfinals against Peru, Brazil won 4-2, with Pelé assisting Tostão on his team's third goal. In the semi-finals, Brazil faced Uruguay for the first time since the 1950 World Cup final round match. Jairzinho put Brazil ahead 2-1, and Pelé assisted Rivelino for the 3-1. In that match, Pelé hit Uruguayan player Fontes with his elbow,[3][14] at the same time the latter was fouling Pelé.

    Brazil played Italy in the final, with Pelé scoring the opener on a header over defender Tarcisio Burgnich. He then made assists on Jairzinho's and Carlos Alberto's goals, the latter one after an impressive collective play. Brazil won the match 4-1, keeping the Jules Rimet Trophy indefinitely. Burgnich, who marked Pelé during the match, was quoted saying "I told myself before the game, he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else — but I was wrong".[16]

    His last international match was on July 18, 1971 against Yugoslavia in Rio de Janeiro. His record with the Brazilian team was 67 wins, 14 draws, and 11 losses. Brazil never lost a match with both Pelé and Garrincha on the field.[17]

    Official Tournaments

    Campeonato Paulista champion in 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1973. [18]
    Torneio Rio-São Paulo champion in 1959, 1963 and 1964[19]
    Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa (Taça de Prata) champion in 1968
    Taça Brasil champion in 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1965
    Copa Libertadores champion in 1962 and 1963
    Intercontinental Cup in 1962 and 1963
    South-American Recopa: 1968
    Unofficial Tournaments

    Copa Oswaldo Cruz: 1958, 1962, 1968
    Mexico City Tournament 1959
    Teresa Herrera Trophy: 1959
    Copa Naranja de Valencia : 1959
    Paris Tournament: 1960, 1961
    Buenos Aires Tournament: 1965
    Chile Octogonal Tournament: 1968
    Rome-Florence Tournament: 1968
    Amazon Tournament: 1968
    Kingston City Tournament: 1971
    Laudo Natel Tournament: 1974
    New York Cosmos
    NASL champion in 1977
    World Cup champion in 1958, 1962, 1970
    Roca Cup: 1957, 1963
    Copa O'Higgins: 1959
    Copa Atlântica: 1960
    He was voted athlete of the century by the International Olympic Committee in 1999 for his Olympic successes.

    In December 2000, Pelé was named Footballer of the Century by FIFA. The award was intended to be based upon votes in a web poll, but after it became apparent that the poll favoured Diego Maradona, FIFA appointed a "Family of Football" committee to decide the winner of the award. Maradona was instead awarded the title of FIFA Internet Player of the Century. Critics to the poll point out that the average age of the current internet user could have favoured the idol of the 1980s. Allegations that the internet poll had been bombarded by Argentine fans still remain to this day.[20]

    In the same year, Pelé received the Laureus World Sports Awards Lifetime Achievement Award from South African President Nelson Mandela.

    Career Statistics
    Goalscoring and appearance record
    Pelé's goalscoring record is often reported as being 1281 goals in 1363 games.[21] This figure includes goals scored by Pelé in non-competitive club matches: for example, international tours Pelé completed with Santos and New York Cosmos, and games Pelé played in for armed forces teams during his national service in Brazil.[22]

    The tables below record every goal Pelé scored in major club competitions for Santos and New York Cosmos. During much of Pelé's playing career in Brazil there was no national league championship. From 1960 onwards the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) were required to provide meritocratic entrants for the then-new Copa Libertadores, a South American international club competition broadly equivalent to the European Cup. To enable them to do this, the CBF organised two national competitions: the Taça de Prata and Taça Brasil. A national league championship, the Campeonato Brasileiro, was first played in 1971, alongside traditional state and interstate competitions such as the Campeonato Paulista and the Torneio Rio-São Paulo.

    The number of league goals scored by Pelé is listed in the infobox at the top of this page as 589 in 605 games. This number is the sum of the goals scored by Pelé in national league-based competitions: the Campeonato Paulista (SPS), Torneio Rio-São Paulo (RSPS), Taça de Prata and Campeonato Brasileiro. The Taça Brasil was a national competition organised on a knockout basis.

    A dark grey cell in the table indicates that the relevant competition did not take place that year.

    Club Season SPS[23] RSPS[23] T. de Prata Camp. Brasil.[23] T. Brasil Copa Libertadores Total
    Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals
    Santos 1956 0* 0* 0* 0*
    1957 14+15* 19+17*[24] 9 5 38 41
    1958 38 58 8 8 46 66
    1959 32 45 7 6 4* 2* 43* 53*
    1960 30 33 3 0 0 0 0 0 33 33
    1961 26 47 7 8 5* 7 0 0 38* 62
    1962 26 37 0 0 5* 2* 4* 4* 35* 43*
    1963 19 22 8 14 4* 8 4* 5* 35* 49*
    1964 21 34 4 3 6* 7 0* 0* 31* 44*
    1965 30 49 7 5 4* 2* 7* 8 48* 64*
    1966 14 13 0* 0* 5* 2* 0 0 19* 15*
    1967 18 17 14* 9* 0 0 0 0 32* 26*
    1968 21 17 17* 11* 0 0 0 0 38* 28*
    1969 25 26 12* 12* 0 0 37* 38*
    1970 15 7 13* 4* 0 0 28* 11*
    1971 19 8 21 1 0 0 40 9
    1972 20 9 16 5 0 0 36 14
    1973 19 11 30 19 0 0 49 30
    1974 10 1 17 9 0 0 27 10
    All 412 470 53 49 56* 36* 84 34 33* 30* 15 17[25] 653 636
    Club Season NASL
    Apps Goals
    NY Cosmos 1975 9 5
    1976 24 15
    1977 31 17
    All 64 37

    A "*" indicates this number was inferred from a Santos fixture list from and this list of games Pelé played, with the number of goals he scored in each. The list includes all 1282 goals he ever scored.
    Other records
    Pelé is in third place on the list of all-time top goalscorers in international matches; in 92 appearances for the Brazilian team, he scored 77 goals. He is in fourth place behind Ronaldo, Gerd Müller, and Just Fontaine on the list of goalscorers in World Cup matches, with 12 goals. He was part of three World Cup winning teams, although he did not play in the 1962 final due to injury and did not receive a medal. Pelé is one of only four footballers to have achieved the feat of scoring in two different world cup final matches, sharing that honor with Paul Breitner, Vava, and Zinedine Zidane.[26]

    He ended his career with a total of 1,282 goals in 1,366 matches,[1] It is often claimed that Pelé is the most prolific scorer in football history, but many of these goals were scored in non-competitive club matches. For instance, if one counts non-competitive goals when compiling the total of goals scored by Gerd Müller, he would have a career total of 1455 goals in 1204 games.[27] As non-competitive games are rarely counted in player's statistics it is unknown how many players could have passed Pelé's mark, but 1,282 goals is certainly one of the highest totals achieved by a professional footballer. If one looks only at competitive goals, then Pelé is the second highest scorer of all time behind Josef Bican.[28] Bican never attempted to draw attention to his record, and when questioned about this, he quipped "who'd have believed me if I said I'd scored five times as many goals as Pelé?"[29]

    Although the Brazilian domestic league system provided every single starter from the 1958, 1962, and 1970 Brazil World Cup Champions,[30] perhaps leading one to the assumption that it was the world's strongest league during the years of Pelé's career, one also has to take into account the state nature of the league. At the time Santos mainly played against other teams from the São Paulo region, whereas the best players were spread around teams all across Brazil.[citation needed] As of 2006, teams from São Paulo state have won 14 of a possible 36 national league titles (see Titles by state)

    Pelé's Santos won twice both the Copa Libertadores (against Boca and Penarol in the two finals) and the World Club Championship (against Eusebio's Benfica and AC Milan in the two finals).

    After football

    Pelé, right, with Brazil President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, left, and Dona Marisa, July 13, 2004 -- Original photo by Ricardo Stuckert/Agência BrasilThe most notable area of Pelé's life since football is his ambassadorial work for various bodies. In 1992, Pelé was appointed a United Nations ambassador for ecology and the environment.

    He was awarded Brazil's Gold Medal for outstanding services to the sport, and in 1995, Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso appointed Pelé to the position of "Extraordinary Minister for Sport". During this time he proposed legislation to reduce corruption in Brazilian football, which became known as the Pelé law. When finally approved in 2000, the bill contained just 11% of the original text, causing Pelé to state that he wanted his name removed from it.[31] Pelé left his position in 2001 after he was accused of involvement in a bribery scandal.[32]

    In 1995, he was appointed a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador, and in 1997 he was given an honorary British knighthood.

    In 2002, Pelé scouted for Premiership Football Team Fulham FC.[33]

    In 2005, Pelé drew international media attention due to the imprisonment of his son Edson Cholbi Nascimento, an ex-goalkeeper of Santos Futebol Clube, who was arrested in an operation to dismantle a drug gang in southeastern Brazil. The younger Nascimento, then 35, was arrested along with about 50 other people after an eight-month investigation into a cocaine trafficking operation in the port city of Santos.[citation needed]

    Pelé has published several autobiographies, starred in documentary and semi-documentary films and composed various musical pieces, including the entire soundtrack for the film Pelé in 1977. He appeared, alongside other footballers of the 1960s and 1970s, Michael Caine, and Sylvester Stallone, in the 1981 film Escape to Victory, about an attempted escape from a WWII Nazi POW Camp. Pelé was one of the first black persons to be featured on the cover of Life magazine, and was the first sports figure featured in a video game with the Atari 2600 game Pelé's Soccer.

    He is now reasonably well known for his role in promoting impotence cure Viagra.[citation needed]

    Acting and film career
    Os Estranhos (1969) (TV Series)
    O Barão Otelo no Barato dos Bilhões (1971)
    A Marcha (1973)
    Os Trombadinhas (1978)
    Escape to Victory (1981)
    A Minor Miracle (1983)
    Pedro Mico (1985)
    Os Trapalhões eo Rei do Futebol (1986)
    Hotshot (1987)
    Solidão, Uma Linda História de Amor (1990)
    Mike Bassett: England Manager (2001)
    ESPN SportsCentury (2004)

    I could go on and on with this, im an expert on competitive soccer, need anything just let me know.
  20. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahem. So you're basing Maradona's greatness more on what he did for Barcelona than anything he did at Napoli and Argentina? That makes no sense. Because even if Maradona at Napoli was playing for a team which had no top-notch players other than himself... he was winning them championships against some of the best players in the world. You can't discredit greatness by saying "he was just the best player on a team that had no other good players". By doing that, you leave off the important thing: he was the best player on a team that had no other good players but routinely beat world-class teams anyway, and that must bring you to the conclusion that the player was the one beating world-class teams by himself!

    Suppose, hypothetically, some kid appeared who ended up being good enough to singlehandedly carry American Samoa all the way to the 2014 World Cup semifinals. Would you discredit him for "not playing with the best", and not winning the World Cup? Just about anyone else in the world would probably call this guy the greatest player in history, just for that single achievement.
  21. leg_breaker

    leg_breaker Member

    Dec 23, 2005
    You make it sound like Maradona was only the best player in Argentina. He was the best player in the world, and when he played in Europe he dragged a somewhat mediocre team to the Seria A title and Uefa Cup. Ronaldo only won one league title despite playing for many of Europe's TOP teams.

    He didn't play a single minute.
  22. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    Ronaldo made the Brazilian team at the age 17, who knows why he didnt play but he was good enough to be there, and yes we can he won 2 WC because he was there.

    I do think Diego was the greatest man, Diego is the "god" of soccer.

    Right now we are just compering soccer athletes to North American Athletes.

    Pele - Jordan
    Diego - Tyson
    Ronaldo - Ali

    Any great American football player, anybody? I do need to know more about American football, I have watched the last Super Bowl and the Rose Bowl but I dont know crap about American Football history.

    I guess my true list of sports goes like that.

    1. Futbol - king of sports
    2. Boxing - the toughest
    3. Surfing - dude we're californians, we the shizzle :cool:
    4. American football

    I used to like Golf but since Tiger Wood is talking crap, golf is out, only old white people think golf is a real sport anyway :D

  23. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jerry Rice
    A little info.
    ...or, perhaps...
    Jim Brown.
    Jim Brown was incredible. Physically devestating, he tried to hurt tacklers. He wouldn't run out of bounds to avoid contact, but rather straight at a tackler. Played just about every sport there was and was good at them all.
    Walter Payton was another running back who ran like this. The only difference was that he did it on teams that sucked. He carried the Bears on his back for years before Ditka arrived as coach. Teams game-planned, and loaded up the line of scrimmage to take him out of the game, but he still got more yards than anyone else.
    The difference with American football is, that it is very rare for one player to tip the field the way a Ronaldo or Maradona does because of the structure of the game. If a team's offensive linemen don't carry out their assignments on every play, the running back won't have room to run and the quarterback won't have time to allow the patterns to develop downfield. One missed assignment can destroy an entire play. And, running sideways in the NFL is death. The structure of the game also dictates that backs get what they can and don't try to make something out of nothing. Coaches would rather face a second and ten than a second and sixteen. Barry Sanders was incredible, but he lost more yards than any other back in history as well.
    As for the winning aspect, look at Tom Brady. Three Super Bowl titles and a couple of Super Bowl MVPs. And, he's done it on a team largely devoid of superstars. Let's put it this way, there aren't a lot of Patriots on many fantasy football must-have lists.
  24. FenoFutbol

    FenoFutbol Red Card

    Dec 12, 2005
    Aguilucho Villa
    This is may comparison on soccer players vrs american athletes, i'll have to do a research on american football, can anybody else try to come out with the best NFL players of all time and try to compare them to our boys.

    Here is my list, for now, american football not include it.

    1. Maradona - Ali
    2. Pele - Jordan
    3. Ronaldo - Koby Bryan?
    4. Roberto Carlos - Tyson
    5. David Beckam - Dennis Rodman :D
    6. Ronaldinho - Vince Carter?
    7. Jorge Gonzalez - any magicians in American sports?
    8. Landon Donovan - Tiger wood :p

    I heard a lot about this quarterback but I forgot his last name, is like Italian or something. I still have to find out about about American football to compare soccer players to them.

  25. hasselbrad

    hasselbrad Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dan Marino? Leading passer yardage-wise. No Super Bowl rings.
    As for magicians, some of the older members might remember the name Fred Biletnikoff. Not particularly fast, but he had some nifty hips for a white boy. And, hands like glue. Of course, he played before Stick-Um was outlawed, so they literally were covered in glue, but even without it, if Fred could touch it, he could catch it.
    Barry Sanders was a magician. He made some of the best, most fundamentally sound tacklers look like Pop Warner benchwarmers.
    Gayle Sayers was another magical runner. The Kansas Comet was frightening in the open field. He scored six touchdowns in one game, three of them over 50 yards. His career was cut short by knee injuries.
    If you're trying to cut on Beckham there, you might want to find someone who was truly overrated. Rodman was probably the best rebounder in history, especially when you consider he was nowhere near as tall as Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell.

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