wasnt the whole team? i dont know. maybe he was tired from leading arsenal through a unbeaten prem league season.
I like the way Beckenbauer (a German) put it best. "For me, Ronaldinho is the best player in the world, the second best is Ronaldinho, and the third ... well, it's Ronaldinho" LOL ... this coming from one of the greatest players of all time (and he is not Brazilian). Good stuff. BTW ... I think Lampard is excellent, but my vote is with Ronaldinho.
I guess that's pretty accurate. What we disagree on then is just the value of Lampard's defending. You credit him with doing lots of good work to that effect, while to me it's less significant, but I think we see eye to eye on Lampard's main role.
Even though there's no such thing as the one best player in the world but I suppose Ronaldinho comes close to that based on recent form. Still doesn't merit him the award for last season though, in which Lampard was overall the better player.
Umm what's this supposed to mean? Some of the stuff written so far in thread is complete and utter rubbish, particularly the idea that I in some way hate entertaining football. Given that I support Spurs an allusion to Glenn Hoddle's ommission from the England team is particularly ridiculous. What I appreciate is people who do important jobs, rather than simply entertain. On the Lampard v Ronaldinho issue the numbers all add up in Frank's favour. Check this link http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=346786&plid=2051&clid=8&cpid=8 It's simple: more goals, more assists, better retention of possession. All from midfield. What more do people want from Lampard? He has been the most effective player in the world this year, and should have been the winner. I'm not going to deride Ronaldinho, he's a fantastic player, but I think he is becoming the new Zidane: a player that the media and fans drool over but whose impact is rarely as great as is made out. Football is a sport not an artform, the objective is to score goals and stop your opponent doing so. Lampard is simply more effective at helping his team win games than Ronaldinho.
Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that Henry consistently has failed to show up outside of English domestic competition. He's been through several Champions' League campaigns and a UEFA Cup campaign with Arsenal and a World Cup and two European Championships with France, and the only one of those in which he actually performed at the level he's capable of was Euro 2000. If he really has been the best player in the world at any point, he should have been to make a mark on the game outside of England.
Some leadership for his country? It's not always due to the club game. Ronaldinho is the best player for the best national team in the world. Lampard can't figure out how to play effectively with Gerrard. Once you expand it to the international stage, there's a huge difference.
he has 27 goals in champions league and 21 in internationals the last five seasons. add his 111 goals and 44 assists in the prem league in that span, and i dont think too many have topped that. if anyone. but whatever. henry never shows up.
Robinho. Ronaldinho. Ronaldo. Denilson . . . . Misleading, to say the least. You were also debating with superbly intelligent people like Ombak and Tpmazembe. If you'd like to look back at the thread, I'm sure you'll find yourself in a less than heroic light. You mentioned Rooney because of your loathsome Manchester United bias, which you don't admit to but which obviously has clouded your judgment on many occasions. I know the thread well. It was a field day--for nicephoras, who exposed the sophistry and shallowness of saying Rooney is "clearly the more complete player." Well, no, it was not robbery. Riquelme probably would have been the worthiest winner, but any of Riquelme, Lampard, or Dinho were fine winners. But given the tone you've taken on the season Dinho just had, I am not sure you know how good he was or even what he did.
Yet none of those international goals came at the last World Cup, or at home against Ireland, Israel, and Switzerland in qualifying for this one. I've already admitted that he was excellent at Euro 2000 - if you take that away, his international record isn't quite as impressive. And I'd really like to see the source on those Champions' League goals. I'd rather not turn this thread into a debate on Thierry Henry, though.
The issue with Gerrard is his problem, he is the one playing d-mid not Lampard. It's also miraculous that despite failing to figure this out, Lampard has still been England's best player this year. England had one really big game this year, Lampard scored a superb decisive goal. Ronaldinho has had 2 really big games this season, he was decent in the Confed Cup but what about the qualifier against Argentina? Judging players from big countries on international performances in non-championship years tells us very little.
1. Beckham's the captain... All Lampard can do is to lead by example. Working hard, scoring and creating goals is the best he can do. He's being a leader. 2. Being the best player for an NT doesn't make them a leader. Otherwise, Rooney would be a great leader. 3. Unless a 3rd mid is introduced, Hamman, Sissoko and Xabi Alonso also can't figure a way to play effectively with Gerrard. He leaves his position continually and that's fine if you are a box to box mid, but then you need a DM as a partner, and Gerrard generally, doesnt. Don't blame Ericksson's stupidity on Lampard - he does his job for England admirably.
Good post. By "his team" I assume you mean Chelsea. What is your opinion on Lampard for England versus Ronaldinho for Brazil though. Do you have similar numbers for Riquelme, by the way? Given that he played for Villareal, one of the smallest of the very small clubs, he has been simply amazing.
Ok, you're probably right. I have to admit I don't watch England and have to go on what I read (which, really, isn't very wise given the nature of football journalism.) I won't begrudge you on that point.
From what I've read and seen of Ronaldinho, he never brings it for the Selecao like he does for Barca, and I have heard that Kaka is more important to Brazil, but I admit I don't get to see many Brazil games.
I would guess that Ronaldinho's play for Brazil, particularly at the Confed. Cup, was a factor in voting for these awards. He also did well in WCQ, where Brazil ended as the first-placed team.
No sadly I don't have any figures for Riquelme who has been truly superb this season and would also have been in my top 3 for the year.
ok, but if Lampard and Ronaldinho are both on fantastic form this season and if Lampard was better last season, does Ronaldinho still merit the award based on that? As for the confed cup, Ronaldinho wasn't at his best, every game he drifted in and out and Kaka ended up being much more important to the team.
I say this a lot, but people don't realize just how small a club Villarreal are. They're probably the sixth or seventh largest club in eastern Spain (and that's not even counting Zaragoza as being part of eastern Spain).
Are you sure, b/c from what I've heard, he wasn't all that great (by his own high standards) during SA WCQ.
He did well. But Brazil have so many talented players that he was never going to take center stage all for himself. This 2002 team is similar to the 1970 team in that sense . . . .
Alright, I guess I was mistaken, but then using this logic (and this isn't directed at you Sempre) how can people fault Lampard for not "dominating" when he plays for England?
easy... if u don't dominate a game... but do occasionally beat your marker so bad he forgets what day of the week it is you will be remembered greatly. However, if much of your work is possesion related, ball winning, spraying it around and all you do is pop up in the box and score occasionally or set up a team mate for a goal, even if you play that way consistently - fans for the most part won't remember your contributions because lets face it - an elastico or a nutmeg is more memmorable than a square ball or an intelligent outlet pass. Ronaldinho has the advantage of playing spectacularly ALL the time, whether he's being effective/dominant or not.
Comme's noted this earlier in the thread. See his post. The blame should perhaps go with Ericksson and his formation.