Yes that's definitely a difference between him and Cruijff, but I do believe in lead-by-example kind of people. But maybe you're less biased than I am. You caught me, I'm a glory hunter . No I'm not a Grunneger. I just went to university here, and I stayed when I got a job. I'm Grunneger enough by now to follow de FC, but I'm loyal to the same club I supported when I was eight, having my very own eighty guilders season ticket.
I agree, for all of Robben's abilities, he just has no charisma, he looks and behaves as a grey mouse. Cruyff's attitude just oozes charisma and a superiority complexe. I read some interviews of German players of the '74 final. When they were waiting in the tunnel to get on the field they felt good untill they stood next to Cruyff c.s. His composure, how he looked at them made the German players feel very small. Unfortunately Cruyff c.s. were also too bigheaded to take full advantage of it. Ajax is the only club that produces players with that kind of attitude. Unfortunately that kind of attitude is only tolerated if it is coupled with a similar size of prowess. Sneijder and Seedorf before him, has the desire to assume the Cruyff role, but at the moment they're two of the most despised and ridiculed players in Holland.
I disagree, Robben exudes confidence. So he doesn't have the leadership qualities of Johan Cruyff - who has and who ever had? Van Basten didn't, Bergkamp certainly didn't.
Robben has no "presence", he is unable to influence his teammates to step up a bit. Van Basten was mainly trained at Utrecht I believe and Bergkamp is the "iceman"... But perhaps Robben can develop such qualities. He probably would be treated very badly if he would try to direct the play like Cruyff did right now. Look what has happened to Seedorf and Sneijder. But to be honest, I don't think Robben will ever develop into such a player, he's a grey mouse with exceptional talent. It is unlikely that he will ever surpass Cruyff or even come near to him. But with a bit of better coaching, I hope Sneijder will come close to it. He's the only player I see at the moment who can make the play and has the arrogance, determination, talent and confidence to lead Holland and make it play more purposeful and coherently. But we need stronger and more physical players to protect our talented midgets.
Well I've seen a lot of fighting talk from Robben at Chelsea, I don't think he's as grey a mouse as you do. Let's just agree to disagree on that. While I think we've got the lowest quality squad in decades at the moment, I also think we've got plenty of fighting spirit to 'protect our talented midgets'. What's more, they're getting cleverer at cheating, and unfortunately that's what you need to win these days. People like Van Nistelrooy and Van Bommel are not to be messed about with. I reckon these players along with Robben, Kuijt, and possibly Van Persie are the future for Holland. I also fear that this current Ajax generation, including Sneijder, are going to disappoint. They really need to speed up their further development as footballers, they're at a stand-still at the moment.
To call him a grey mouse is also an exaggeration.....just because he doesn't have the typical 'big mouth' from the randstad? Arrogance and confidence are two different things. Robben just knows his place and acts accordingly. I think he could come close to Cruyff when he gets older and maybe gets a more prominent role on the field (Bergkamp started his career as winger....). He could lead by example like someone said earlier. You won't see him talk about football like Cruyff did, though.... Sneijder is further away from that status than Robben at the moment. He's a presence on the pitch, alright. But that presence mainly consists of attitude lately. Questions as to who's fault that is put aside, he has to learn only to use his mouth when actually has something to say. Arrogance alone doesn't make you a Cruyff either.....
ummmm actually wesley has generally shut his mouth and played some damn good football for the past month on topic, why does anyone have to be the new cruijff? why can't he just be the first robben? THERE IS ONLY ONE CRUIJFF, as it should be
Not even Van der Vaart, Sneijder or Heitinga themselves would say they've improved much of late. They've got that Eeuwig Talent label threatening them at the moment.
I never thought I'd agree so whole-heartedly with a Grun fan, but I do. Well said. Who are the stars of this new Dutch generation? Van Nistelrooy and Robben. Neither of them have a big mouth, neither of them are arrogant, neither of them have an Ajax background. Enough said.
Yes he has improved since the incidents with Koeman and that's good. Remember, I never said He doesn't have what it takes at all.....I just resent the assumption that someone with modesty lacks leadership per se. And that someone with a big yapper is a natural leader by default. A good leader knows when to speak up and when to shut up......
the problem with rafi is he is nto a captain kind of guy - i think he accepted it to show responsibility, but he is really not the player to get a malcontent in line or something like that - for one thing, he's much too sensitive for all of that - now, he did well in speaking for the team after a bad showing because he felt he had to... and he did try to fill in at #9 to help the team... but of course he always has to air his gripes with the coach (another captain no-no) - i'm sure roy keane argues with fergie all the time, but that's too be expected with a strong captain - however, he would never go to the press with his complaints unless it was about the side sneijder probably thinks he can be a captain type of guy, and maybe he can - his problem was he started reading his press clips and thinking he was owed something... not especially rare for a young player to test his boundaries - hopefully now, as you said, he has learned his lesson to me, the most natural captain type of the young AJACIED is heitinga, but even he has had to learn the backlash from complacency galasek is a proper captain, but he will not stay much longer i think - o'brien commands some respect, but he can't seem to knock the injury bug
Heitinga complacent? He's had a backlash in form, but he doesn't strike me as being complacent. It's a pity Galasek apparently doesn't want to be (that's what i've read) the leader he can be and Koeman can't deal with young, talented players....That's what they need, someone on and off the pitch who can keep 'em in line when nescessary and let them do their thing whenever possible....
1-with heitinga, i mean his play was complacent - lazy passes, being fancy, etc. - i don't expect to see that again 2-see the thing is... koeman is not much of a talker either - despite how he played, he seems to not want to confront his players
Right on, blue. By the way, to say that Robben is the 'star' of Holland along with van Nistelrooij? Give me a break. You are seriously insulting RvN if you think that. I would tend to put Makaay ahead of Robben. Like I said earlier, as soon as he stops flopping about the pitch like a fish, he can't be in he same league as RvN. As for his attitude and character, a couple of weeks ago he publicly stated to the press that he stood behind Kezman with all of the troubles he has been having to find the net - he stated that he had no doubt that his touch would come back... a bit of a leader maybe??
Seems like Martin Jol has been stealing talking points off Bigsoccer.......http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=afp-fblengprspurschelsea&prov=afp&type=lgns
I nearly choked in my hot chocolate when I read that. I hope you don't mind me concluding that you know f all about football.
typically Dutch. (ik ben ook een Nederlander) For the sake of argument, how well would Robben be doing in the Premiership if he didnt have John Terry slicing up the front with him?
Do you think Robben was rubbish before he joined the premiership then? He's excelled everywhere he's played, and that's including the Dutch national team. The man is sheer class. Trust me, I'd rather he played for Arsenal too. Unfortunately he doesn't, so let's not be bitter.
That's wrong. Robben is actually a very, very strong player. Especially given his frame. He wins a surprising amount of headers, and holds off large defenders better than most wingers. He is NOT a midget.
I think ADO's referring to players like Sneijder and Castelen, and perhaps even Davids, who need a couple of big strong boys next to them. Oranje doesn't have many tall strong players of Jaap Stam's ilk. That said, I do agree that there's nothing wrong with Robben's physical strengths.
You're saying Robben can't be a star until he stops diving, like Ruud? Are you kidding me? Ruud goes down easier than Robben, and he's a bit bigger! Robben has not been diving a lot this year at all, actually. Pamarot is whining about it now, but ironically, the picture that ran with the article shows Pamarot with a handful of Robben's jersey. Yes, "diver". As an Arsenal fan, I'm sure you recall our last meeting, in which Robben slalomed through 3 defenders before putting the ball off Almunia, for a corner the ref bizzarely didn't give us. Well, if he'd been RVN or Pires, he'd have gone down in that situation like he was shot.
Robben put in one of the greatest displays of football I have seen this year, yesterday against Portsmouth he has also seemed to improve which is even scarier.