hahah, good one Robben is miles and miles better than Beasly. Seriously, if he is the new Robben (or comes close) why isnt he a starter every match. ps. Babel is the new Kluivert (serious)
I literally heard Hiddink say on telly last week that physically, Beasley isn't ready for the Dutch league (yet). I also think Beasley might fall victim to Farfan's good form of late.
I think Beasly doesnt really need to worry about Farfan, as I think Farfan is close to getting the central spot in the Eindhoven attack. Beasly is however, far far from being the new Arjen Robben. Development is not an issue here IMO, pure talent is. Robben is stronger, faster and has better technique. Very important aswell is the difference in confidence between the two wingers. Robben gets the ball, dashes at his direct opponent and then dashes past his direct opponent. Beasly gets the ball, looks at his direct opponent, and starts dribbling in circles with very small steps, not even guarding the ball at all times.
Only thanks to hundreds of millions of local government "subsidy" (i.e. taxpayers money), was Real Madrid able to win a couple of trophies. Talk about having non-level playingfields in Europe! Real Madrid suck. At least with Chelsea, its RA's money being poured in (although I admit the Russians experienced the largest rip-off ever in human history). Viva Barcelona!!
Talk about people still spouting nonsense By the by, ¿wasn't PSV the only club in the Eredivisie who hasn't received any monetary help from the local government (in recent history)? Pretty sure I've heard this a couple of times when van Raaij was still visiting the various sport shows. Talk about having non-level playingfields in....oh wait, that would mean almost every team in Holland (hello Ajax) has received monetary help from the government. But I guess allegedly receiving free money from the government (and it then turning out, it not being the case) is much worse than actually receiving money from the government eh?
" ... instigated by FC guesswho, whining about favors to Real Madrid ... " What is this from, the Real Madrid FanZine?? Sure, and Airbus does not receive any government funds either, these Americans at Boeing are just 'whining'. Well Monti has gone, abd Nelie Smit Kroes should take a closer look at this sell-rent back construction at Real Madrid!
Give me a concrete example in Holland of the same magnitude as with Real Madrid! The only local government support in Holland I know of is the bail out of Vitesse. In any case, nowhere near the amounts Real Madrid received. And btw, Ajax is listed at the Euronext stock exchange. I'm sure this means that they're heavily regulated. Are you seriously saying that teams in Holland, Germany, France, even England can play along the same financial rules as in Spain and Italy?
That's cute, the inability to distinguish between the actual article and somebody translating it for the non-Spanish speaking people. Which would be 0? ¿Facts not getting through? I don't know what food or drinks would help with the blood flow to the brain, but if it's not milk, hey, at least it gives you strong bones. So drink up. I'm guessing you're not Dutch, because it wasn't so long ago that a number of clubs received help from the local gemeentes to keep them afloat, and it being in the news quite visibly for all to see and hear. You missed some good tv with people arguing about if people's tax money should be used on these clubs instead of things that concern all the people of a district. Not exactly a secret.
"Met dank aan de overheid. Gemeenten, en in mindere mate ook provincies, hebben in de afgelopen jaren honderden miljoenen euros in het noodlijdende profvoetbal gepompt" Like I said, not exactly a secret.
The city of Enschede helped Twente last year but this was with an amount of one million Euros - you can't possibly compare the money pumped into Dutch clubs by local government to what clubs in Spain are getting away with. I for one do think local government should support their eredivisie clubs financially to some extent, because they're of tremendous importance to the local population. When Twente got to the cup final in 2001, 36,000 people travelled to Rotterdam, an additional 10,000 watched the game live in the Twente stadium, and an additional 20,000 watched the game live on screens in the city centre. And Enschede has a population of 160,000, so that's almost half the population football-mad. That said I think clubs should only be supported financially under very strict terms, and it shouldn't lead to unfair competition (so no Real Madrid scenario please).
The article mentions government support for half the Eredivisie and Eerste Divisie teams, did it say Ajax, Feyenoord etc, i.e. teams that compete internationally? Look at Ajax' financial report, you won't see mentioned that government funds were received, on the contrary Ajax was charged for still having to pay taxes!! Does this happen at Real Madrid as well Oscar? Secondly the amounts mentioned are since 1992, spread over dozens of (small) local teams, used mostly to buy up stadiums, to help teams that play an important role (not just football) in their region. I.e. the money is not spent on expensive players. If you're comparing this with what Real Madrid got in 1 year simply to buy world class footballers, you're out of your mind. And, I'm Dutch so guess again. Dutch teams just can't compete with these practices that are tolerated in Spain. So I'll ask again, do you seriously think that financially there is a level playing field between Northern European teams and teams from Spain and Italy?? You probably also think Cor Boonstra is not guilty of insider trading. Dream on.
Denial at work, lower your speeds. Maybe that's because Madrid pays their taxes on time like every other business that doesn't get a bill because they didn't pay enough like Ajax did ("it can't be, every one of those companies who pay their taxes correctly are crooks...yes") but yeah, if a team pays taxes that's like total proof that they didn't receive funds from the government or something. So now there's a distinction to how government funds are used in football to make something 'wrong' or 'right'. Why not just change that into 'if Madrid receive money from the government (which didn't happen in the case you mentioned, let's see how many times this must be written before you start to understand) it's boo bad, if we do it's a o k' Then it works in every case, and not just when the government buys a stadium for a club, money which is then saved and obtained by the clubs which can then be spent on other things: like more expensive players. Duh. Milk isn't working I see, maybe watching more Sesame Street will do the trick. You can have somebody join you in the Sesame watching I see. It's much more fun watching it together anyway.
Oscar, you again managed to not answer whether you think Ajax, Feyenoord, Az, PSV etc are on the same level playing field as Spanish clubs with regards to having to get their financial act together. So who's in denial here, huh? Furthermore, unless football plays a less important role in say Germany and England, I'd say that the type of (local) government support that Dutch clubs occassionally get, occurs in other countries as well. I mean, why else is Leipzig getting one on the WC2006 stadiums? What I'm trying to point out is that the Real Madrid case is of an entirely different order and nature than what was described in that article of yours. But obviously, you just won't realize this. Move on to mushrooms, I'll stick with milk.
It's not even 2 years that the KNVB made a new rule that they can fine teams for not having their act together financially, which was brought about because a big number of Dutch teams didn't, and were only saved from certain bankruptcy because of the tax payer's money. The difference is that the Spanish teams with debt don't get bailed out by the government as much (i.e. every time, even MVV for God's sake) as the Dutch teams do, or else those Dutch teams which have their 'financial act together' would be swimming in debt as well, so... ....that, and the fact that in your last post you still maintained that Madrid have received gift money from the government for that sale, I'm guessing that would still be you. Hey, you're the one who started this whole receiving money from the government is bad, not me. A refresh-of-memory: "Only thanks to hundreds of millions of local government "subsidy" (i.e. taxpayers money) was Real Madrid able to win a couple of trophies. Talk about having non-level playingfields in Europe!" ¿Now you're suddenly singing a different tune and saying it's 'normal', when it appears Madrid did not receive any "subsidy" at all, and that most Dutch teams did and do? Plot twist galore. It's of a different order because Madrid doesn't receive money for nothing from the government like the FC Utrecht's, NAC's, Vitesse's etc. of the world (i.e. Holland), or are you now going to say you're more in the know than a European Comission who investigated the sale of the training grounds and found nothing wrong, and still maintain there was?
After reading through another of your extensive replies, I conclude that you're truly delusional, Oscar. The KNVB cracks down on financial mismanagement at (some) Dutch clubs combined with the fact that there is much more transparency on government support in Holland versus a situation in Spain where teams can remain alive with huge operational deficits, where little or no transparency exists, and where there is little or no public debate on whether government funds should be used to support football teams, almost leads you to conclude that the 'financial non-level playing field' is actually created by Dutch teams! How wrong I was, I always thought that Dutch teams never had enough money to compete with Spanish and Italian teams when trying to buy new players. And, Real Madrid did receive money from the local government, loads of it, whether directly or indirectly, this is a fact. And again, there is no other comparison in Europe. Looking forward to your reply.
Who doesn't really What is this, been spending too much time on rivalries that you picked up on this "if I write it, that means it's so"? Can't say it's any less ludicrous here than it's there though. Let me know if it was the Dutch teams getting bailed out by tax money, or that Madrid didn't receive money from that sale (already proven by the holy E.U.) that was 'delusional' to you. ¿How does this have anything to do with Dutch teams receiving money from the government to remove their debts? Ever heard of tv money and attendances being bigger in other countries? Maybe not. You really have been spending too much time on rivalries. For some reason I put more faith in the E.U. than somebody on a messageboard who's reaching like a desperate man. Damn, can those people reach or what? It's like they're desperate or something, I think that's why the 'desperate' goes in front of the "man".
Well, next you'll say that the Primera Division is more attractive/challenging/whatever than the Holland Casino Eredivisie. Any other irrelevant open doors you wanna kick in?? Your attempts to circumvent around the real issue, namely Real Madrid gaining an unfair advantage with their training complex deal, a/o by accusing Dutch teams of illegal government support, just won't fly. You claim that Real Madrid being acquitted of any charges is sufficient proof that no such unfair advantage was created. Well, I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell O.J. was found not guilty, same with Berlusconi last Friday, I already mentioned Boonstra. I.e. I guess what I'm trying to say is that apparently with high profile cases sometimes some 'higher cause' is (better) served by acquitting people (mind you this is a sarcastic remark). Imagine what would need to happen if Real Madrid were found guilty, they'd be kicked out the league wouldn't they? Just talk to ex-employees at Enron who saw their entire pension savings go up in smoke, and I don't think Skilling is doing any jail time now. You won't agree with the above, but that's because of cognitive dissonance (or simply because you're naive), not because you're right. End of story.
I think the key difference between Real Madrid and Dutch clubs receiving money from local government is not just in the amount, but also in the fact that Real Madrid seems to be under no obligation to give insight into their financial dealings whereas Dutch clubs do. A club like Twente can't buy big players because they'd get both the KNVB and the municipality on their backs for financial mismanagement. Whereas Real Madrid just goes on buying big players regardless of their bank balance. Again I do think that local government should support their clubs financially, but only to get them out of trouble, and not to give them an unfair competitive advantage.
Re: I thought they couldn't buy big players because they simply didn't have the money, or maybe even players not wanting to live in Twente (makes sense ) Anyway.... Many Dutch clubs' backs must have been ridden by the KNVB and the government for their financial mismanagement then, oh wait, the KNVB only applied that rule where they could punish a team 2 years ago when many teams were faced with bankruptcy (that wasn't financial mismanagement at all) and as far as I know no teams have been punished yet by this new rule. And the government gives away money to the teams in question who were 'financially mismanaged'. Hopefully the clubs can find the strength to live with this harsh and extremely mean punishment. Don't let facts get in the way though. It's funny that you think it's irrelevant, not because it isn't (it is) it's funny because you brought this up in the first place. Looks like this will happen more often, refresh-of-memory: "I always thought that Dutch teams never had enough money to compete with Spanish and Italian teams when trying to buy new players" ¿Are you a troll? No seriously. One can't 'circumvent' around the real issue, when it's been adressed more than a few times already. You're the one who seems to want to ignore it for some reason. Refresh-of-memory-now-extra-freshy: "In the next few days the European Commision will archive the charges concerning the sale of the Ciudad Deportiva del Real Madrid, due to it having been shown that there was no public subsidy afforded to Real Madrid by the Autonomous Community of Madrid nor by the City of Madrid." I think it was apparent from the start that your argumentation should go the way of: "yeah, it's been proven by a neutral party that Madrid didn't do anything wrong........ but I.... know better...... yeah that's it" And a fantastic story it was, man, gotta love those nutty conspiracy theories. You might want to work with it some more though, because it makes no sense for an E.U. comission to even give a shít if a football team would get kicked out of their league or not (ignoring that they would sooner get fined or relegated if Madrid was guilty of the acussation) you do realise the E.U. and the UEFA are different organisations right?
One easily tends to forget that though governments spend alot on pro-footie clubs, they're definately on the receiving end as well... There has been a survey which concluded that professional football costs 'dutch society' 30 mln euros... The only figure they 'conveniently' left out was the fact that the government earns 0.5 billion on taxes and such, paid by those who earn their living in pro-football.... That means 'society' actually makes a profit on this. Compare that to the subsidised tickets for theater shows e.g.....(not that I condone that, on the contrary. Theatre, art and such are also worth some investment, just to make a comparison.....)
What a stupid fucking thread! Robben is an overrated clown, labeling him the new Cruyff is a joke. He only performs well against bottom feeders, did you watch yesterdays game? Lauren dealt with him easily. Apart from one run where our defence was at fault, he didn't do shit all game except whine like all blue bitchs do.