Rob Stone: US Manager shortlist is Ramos, Tata Martino, Marsch, Berhalter, Friedel, Osorio & Vermes.

Well, you were kind of all over the place. First blaming some specific names for figuring heavily in the qualification failure, and then blaming them for not going to Europe and proving themselves as starters for the very same cycle. Never mind that all the guys you singled out are all over 30 now. If you're just saying that everyone should go to Europe and MLS shouldn't overpay, fair enough. But I happen think there's a big difference between Bradley leaving Europe for TFC and Besler taking under $800,000 a year to stay in MLS.

 

How can anyone blame MB for taking silly money? He probably added 8 digits of aftertax value vs. what he would have received if he had tried to stay in the major leagues. I wonder if MLS/TFC think it was worth it - they did get an MLS Cup but it was very expensive and I'd argue that their true difference maker was Giovinco and they could have replaced 90% of MB/JA for less than 1/3 the price. YMMV.

I again don't think that we could have expected any more from Besler in a USMNT kit as well irrespective of what jersey he put on. Was he a huge difference maker/lockdown defender? probably not but he was good and consistent.

 

Fair enough. I was trying to make a point about a whole generation of players not having to push themselves. When Wynalda, Lalas, Ramos, Reyna came up, they had to go to Europe to make a living. When Besler, Wondo, Zusi came up, they didn't. Now Pulisic, McKennie, Adams also don't have to go to get rich. But they are going for other reasons that the Besler/Zusi generation didn't care about or see differently.

 

Remember that at the end of 2012 Klinsmann used his contacts to get a bunch of promising MLS players trials in Europe with EPL and BuLi clubs. Zusi, Besler, Beckerman and Hamid were among those who went on multiple trials.

Zusi and Besler suddenly got DP-level ($750K) contract offers from SKC to convince them to not pursue Euro moves.

I know that @DHC1 said that the coach should not publicly poke MLS. I guess that helping arrange trials and looks abroad for promising youth prospects is also off limits.

 

Our results last cycle playing with all the Europe-based players on the field were not any better than when playing with mostly MLSers.

The biggest canard circulating is that we failed to qualify because Arena didn't want to play the "Europeans."

 

Cheap shot THHF! You know that I am a big fan of our best players pushing themselves but perhaps some of our USMNT roster

A) realizes that they’re not major league material and don’t want to play only on their B teams; and/or

B) are more a hothouse flower that needs a nurturing environment rather than a daily grind.

My comment is about private vs public conversations and having actions speak louder than words.

 

No, like my favorite Thai chili sauce.

Sara-chan :: Sriracha.



But no, he pronounces it with a "K" sound.

It was the one thing I found remotely entertaining about Dave and it wasn't even true.

I mean, just think of the endorsement deals he could've brought in. "US Soccer - sponsored by Huy Fong Foods." "US Soccer - Red, White, and Spicy." "US Soccer - The Future is HOT."

I bet Dave would've had a better shot at getting the permanent job if his name was pronounced like the sauce. I can imagine Earnie sitting there thinking, "Y'know, he sucks at tactics and doesn't have a clue what he's doing ... but there's something about Dave Srira-chan just gets me all hot and bothered. He feels dangerous and exciting - yet I still want more."


Instead, we got Earnie thinking, "I wish I had someone to hold a beer with. Wait a minute."

 

Oscar Pareja made the following comments at his first press conference with Club Tijuana today (behind a paywall):

https://theathletic.com/705816/2018/12/10/

 

Young Gio has proven to be much less effective without Josmer Volmy as his foil.

 

No wall can suppress free speech!

 

In my mind, Xolos hired him to improve that San Diego pipeline. I don't think nationality even matters that much in LMX now. They could be thinking of enticing player's families to move to San Diego.

I mean think about it. If German clubs are taking deep looks at young players here why not Xolos? Since they are close to the border they have an exemption and can bring in youngsters of any age. If the can find a Pulisic, a McKennie or an Adams they are golden. Who cares about nationality at that point?

 

"Young Gio"? Isn't he a slight framed 31 year old returning from injury?

Looking at MLS stats, his points are higher in 2018 than in 2017 even with Jozy gone.

2018: 13 goals /15 assists = 28 points
2017: 16 / 6 = 22 points

 

Ok the difference isn't as big as I thought:

From August:

Giovinco averages 1.15 goal involvements per game when he starts with Altidore and 1.02 goal involvements per game without.

As for TFC:

With Altidore and Giovinco, win 52.8%
Without Altidore, win 27.9%
Without Giovinco, win 42.1%
Without both, win 30.0%

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...ovinco-tfc-really-much-worse-without-altidore

 

Interesting article although as it states multiple times, "the numbers are taken without the vital presence of context (form, level of opponent, home/away, etc.)" To my eye, Giovinco deserved the MVP as for years he was heads and shoulders better than the rest of the league.

This isn't to say that JA and MB aren't good MLS players but rather are they worth the huge contracts that they've received?

 

As an indicator of fan interest, we can use the attendance records. An increase in fan interest also increases advertising, memorabilia sales, broadcast rights, and franchise value. I'm not an accountant, but I'm thinking Toronto gambled and won.

From Wiki:

Average attendance
Season Reg. season
2007 20,134
2008 20,108
2009 20,344
2010 20,453
2011 20,267
2012 18,681
2013 18,131
2014 22,086
2015 23,451
2016 26,583
2017 27,647
2018 26,628
Attendance for Toronto FC dipped during 2012 and 2013 due to continued poor results by the team. Attendance bounced back in 2014 and in following years due in large part to the major signings of players such as Michael Bradley, Jermain Defoe and Sebastian Giovinco.

 

This Berhalter hiring makes me angrier by the day. I thought I would be happy to have someone in place but now I just feel annoyed it took so long to get an ok guy. And I am not convinced by the number of people we overlooked to give it to him.

 

I don't think we overlooked anyone. I think he was always the guy.

If Sunil had hired someone on Oct. 12, 2017, it would have been Berhalter.

If the USA had qualified for the WC, Arena would have retired and USSF would have hired Berhalter.

I do think Stewart looked at alternatives, but he must have come in with Berhalter as the #1 option.

If the idea was to have a collaborative technical staff, based wholly in Chicago, you just weren't going to get many other people. Pareja was the second choice (or the more expensive of the two); not sure anyone else would have gone for it that had pro level head coaching experience.

They should have hired him last January. They hired him at the last possible second really. But they saved money with his hire and delaying his hire.

I'd like to see some interesting staff hires. Pulling his whole Crew staff in would be disappointing.

 

I don't think the excitement would have been so prolonged had the experiment failed. Defoe was swapped out for a Premier League flop, Giovinco was a fringe international and Bradley an uninspiring defensive midfielder.

Look at Schweinsteiger. Chicago are back to where they were before he they signed him.

 

A coach that wanted the USMNT job enough to reach out to Jay Berhalter about it just won the Europa league over Conte’s Inter.

He was told we were too far along in our “process”. We interviewed two candidates over a 14 month period and landed on Jay’s brother.

 

I read that. USSF is very much an MLS-controlled operation and a closed shop at the senior level on the men's side.

 

Distressing. He should be on a very short leash because of the selection process. And if there is this sort of MLS influence, it should be purged on ethics grounds. Let’s not make merit-free decisions like FIFA.

 

Is there some new information you all are referring to?

 

I think the new information is Lopetegui winning the Europa League. But the news about him reaching out to US Soccer and being rebuffed has been around for a while. I think it was first reported by Grant Wahl?

 

Lopetegui also had extensive experience with the Spain national youth teams.