First of all: do you live in the Netherlands? As long as you can play some ball and aren't Marrocan or Turkish, you are quite welcome. Secondly: using this kind of argument to supposedly express your worries for de Guzmans future wellbeing is sick. You are just worried/jealous that he will choose to play for a different nation. Since you wish the best for Canada. That's quite normal, now isn't it. Don't drag this kind of weird reasonings into a topic/discussion. If got some more for you to worry over: What if he takes a drug overdose? What if he gets murdered by pimps in the red light district? Or woodshoed to death after he misses a penalty at the EC 2008 final. Better not make him a Dutch nt-player. I also read the interviews with de Guzman and am not quite convinced that he will ever join the Dutch nt.
If he chooses Holland I'll wish him all the best. Mostly because I'm a Dutch fan and can still cheer for him . I just hope that if he does choose Holland and gets capped he is indeed good enough to make it. There's probably 7 or 8 other Dutch players within 3 or 4 years of his age, that may have just as much potential of making those two or three midfield spots there own. That should be a big concern of his..
The new season started for Feyenoord with a lot of turmoil. We lost our goal scoring attackers Kuyt and Kalou.That didnot much good to the confidence of the squad. Jonathan was dragged down with the rest of the teams dismal performance. As a midfielder he lost two dangerous players to feed with passes and the substitutions still have to make the right impression. This all was expressed in the rating JdG got for his performance in the two matches fo the new season by Voetbal International. FC Groningen - Feyenoord= 3-0 JdG rating 2 stars (out of a max of 5) Feyenoord - Heracles......= 0-0 JdG rating 2 stars Hope he gets his confidence back soon.
What is sadly lacking in the world today is the idea that there are alternative ways that one can get 'paid'. This is particularly relevant in situations like Jonathan de Guzman's where a person has very few monetary concerns due to other salaries. If it were me in his unique position I would feel that the potential to leave an everlasting mark on ones own national sporting tapestry would far outweigh the potential to achieve the status quo with an adopted homeland. This is something that money cannot buy. The way I see it, Canada probably has a slightly more difficult task (as it stands) in qualifying for the WC than Holland. However, if you compare the possibility of Canada qualifying for the WC to that of Holland winning the WC I'd say that Canada has much better odds. Furthermore, with the best talent possible (eg de Guzman and posthumously OH) Canada would have the chance to really excite a nation. Unfortunately for Holland the only excitement will come from the unlikely event that they win. Finally, if we compare these two possibilities let's imagine what the value of the 'payment' would be. 1. de Guzman plays for Canada and eventually helps to bring the team into an era of respectability. They make it to one or two WC's in his time and actually surprise some people with their play (ala several African national teams). They inspire a new level of soccer appreciation in Canada and pave the way for future success. Jonathan de Guzman is recalled time and again after his playing days are through as the father of 'soccer's birth' in Canada and a key reason for its success. 2. de Guzman plays for Holland. They make it to two or three WC's and European championships. He plays well but, along with his teammates, is a victim of Holland's seemingly pre-destination to bow out shortly after the group rounds of competition. Jonathan de Guzman is recalled occasionally after his playing days are through as yet another in the long line of skilled Dutch players who somehow have failed time and again to take that final step and become champions. Which type of ‘payment’ would you prefer? For me the answer is quite easy.
?? WC 2006 - 2nd round Euro 2004 - Semi-Finals Euro 2000 - Semi-Finals WC 98 - Semi-Finals WC 94 - Quarter-Finals Euro 92 - Semi-Finals WC 90 - 1st Round Euro 88 - Winner When they make a big tournament (never a sure thing), Oranje usually go pretty far See 1988 . . .
WC 2006 - 2nd round Euro 2004 - Semi-Finals Euro 2000 - Semi-Finals WC 98 - Semi-Finals WC 94 - Quarter-Finals Euro 92 - Semi-Finals WC 90 - 1st Round Euro 88 - Winner World Cup performance is what I was really getting at and this list supports my point. That aside, one Euro Championship on that list and in 1988 at that (not to mention no other finals appearances on the list) seem to support my point as well. But, the real telling line from windycity's post is "When they make a big tournament (never a sure thing), Oranje usually go pretty far". It's the 'never a sure thing' that is the strongest support for my post. See 1988... Starting to sound a bit like the English with that one... 'see 1966'.
yes, except that's not really what you said, is it? you said they don't progress far past the group stages not true based on past tourneys - when they make them, Oranje tend to go pretty far
I hope windycity isn't taking this as an attack on the Dutch. I never intended on insulting Holland or its fans. If I did I apologize. I really should ammend the comment about Holland not making it far past the group stages to 'Holland rarely making it to the final and even more rarely winning". The point I'm trying to make, in a much abreviated form, is that de Guzman has a much better chance of having a long lasting effect and more glorious personal legacy playing for Canada even with Canada not doing as well on paper (success being relative of course). This type of 'payment' may well be worth a whole lot more than any amount of money could match.
This is pie in the sky bullshit. You have nothing to back this up with. Canada and the CSA in particular has treated its 'stars' with nothing but derision. He is almost guaranteed fame and adoration with Holland if he joins them. Unless things change dramatically, the only 'glory' in being dedicated to the Cdn team is that from a small (very small) group of national team fans. Work the playing with his brother angle, because that is the only one that will fly logically.
If DeGuzman choose Canada, he'll be call for every game and have a chance to be recognized as an important figure for canadian soccer no matter what happen (I mean if he plays at a decent level, he'll be a star). If he helps Canada to qualify for the WC he could do a lot for soccer here (that's when the small group of fans could get bigger). If he chooses Holland, he'll takes certain risks that he doesn't have with Canada. The players pool is a lot more competitive in Holland and he could be drop out of the squad if his performances aren't up to the task or if a better option emerge (something more unlikely with Canada but still possible with our youth players improving over the last few years). So the adoration and fame aren't a sure shot, but it's still probable if he does well. That's an important point for him to consider and it's impossible for him to clearly know what will happen. That's why in a certain way I hope he doesn't turn out in a superstar before he makes his decision.....
Essentially, imagine if Dwight Yorke had/could have played for England. He would have been called up for a few tournies, nothing recent, and not done much. Look at how he feels after having brought T&T, HIS country, to the WC.
You both make the same belaboured point. That he will be sure to called up, get lots of action and could potentially make a big difference. However, you ignore the point I am making. Even the biggest Cdn star in soccer is going to be at best of marginal interest to most Cdns and, going on past history, given very little to cheer about from the CSA (at best) on the downside of his career. Look at the career of Alex Bunbury. Voted the BEST player in Portugal one year while with Maritimo, sacrificed lots to appear for Canada each and every time he was called. Treated like dirt at the end of his career. Apart from one great interview on CBC radio some 6 yrs ago or so, virtually ignored by the media.
I agree that Holger treated Alex like dirt in the end and the media are pathetics too. Like I've said, if he helps Canada qualified for the WC, it could turn out to be a great thing for him but choosing Holland could bring him to better things but they're risks and he's studying it at the moment, so we'll see. The thing I don't like about this is that european countries are getting and unfair advantage because they have the best clubs with the best youth systems and if countries starts using their clubs youth systems to find foreign players for their MNT it's bad for soccer. I think FIFA should have rules to avoid those situations. I can understand why Jonathan would like to choose Holland, better team, a better organization, less travel but I don't think he should've had this opportunity.
Steve Nash is a superstar in a sport most Canadians couldn't care less about and I think he is well venerated at home. Bunbury had a good career but he was still playing at a middle level club in a 2nd tier league. We have never had a Canadian excel in a major club in a major league. Even your beloved Hargreaves despite a couple of good matches for England has been a pretty average/mediocre Bundesliga player throughout his career so far. Stalteri, Radzinski and DeGuzman are basically role players on their clubs. I think if a Canadian became a star player in a top league and also played for the national team he would get a lot of attention and respect at home. You play for your country not the sports administration body. Not everyone shares the same mercenary attitude you seem to have and hopefullly for us DeGuzman does not have this same mercenary attitude that Hargreaves has.
Well you must be living in some part of Canada I've never been if you think the NBA and European soccer leagues are on the same footing in terms of popularity here in Canada. And the average/mediocre players in the Bundesliga don't play for Bayern. You continue to slag Hargreaves as a player which shows to me that you just can't get over your love/hate relationship with him. He is hardly mediocre. That aside, I am not taking a mercenary position here, I am simply saying that there is no way you can argue that playing for Canada is going to make Jonathan hugely popular here or be a better choice for him in terms of glory. What we can do is argue that he could and should make soccer history in Canada with his brother. However, that soccer history will be just a footnote in Cdn sport news (remember the Gold Cup victory?) and won't lead to the fame that (cough) Hargreaves has in Canada for playing for England.
You guys have a bunch of upcoming stars. Jaime Peters and Will Johnson are great players. Theres prob a few others I dont remember.
Not in the under 20 crowd, but Julian de Guzman (25) is one of the better players out of North America; not many such players have played outfield positions in Spain's top division. Michael Klukowski is the same age, and will be having a 2nd season of Champions League action with Brugges this season. Atiba Hutchison (23) will be seeing some great games this season with FC Kopenhavn is right up there. Add in Ledgerwood (21) at 1860 Muenchen and Ryan Gyaki (20) at Sheffield United and we have some good club development going for these guys. Among the youngsters, David Edgar looks like he could anchor our back line for 10 years once he is a bit more seasoned and will be welcome to the senior team along with the 2 guys you mentioned. I kind of liked the look of Andrea Lombardo with our U20's, tall lanky striker who doesn't seem to do too much but scores when he get the opps. He's being groomed in the lower Italian divisions. We should not be having the problems we are having getting into the hex.
Great list but I think you forgot one of our best prospect, DeJong, who already started all games for Roda JC. He's 19 or 20 and from what I've read, he's a real competitor. DeJong play on the left of Roda back four but can also play in midfield. In the longer term I like the chances of Kennedy OA, Nunez and JBB to have a good pro career.
Maybe the west is different but outside of Toronto the NBA is just not that popular in central Canada. In fact the only time there is a lot of interest is when Nash is involved in a playoff run though I imagine if the Raptors made the playoffs interest would increase as well. There may not be one Euro soccer league with the same Canadian following as the NBA but I think if you combined the fans of all Euro leagues it would roughly equal the NBA following. As far as Hargreaves goes I fully admit I dislike Hargreaves just as you seem to love him for whatever reason. Yet I am still able to look at his performances objectively something I don't think you are doing. He had a few good games at the WC and in the final England game was their best player. He has also had the occassional strong game with Bayern but has been very inconsistent over the past few years and hasn't even been a steady starter at times. Maybe if he played for a smaller team he would have a bigger impact like when DeGuzman was at Hannover but he has been one of the more mediocre performers for Bayern in the last few seasons. Since I have followed the Bundesliga the closest we have come to having a star player was DeGuzman in his last few seasons with Hannover although he certainly has not duplicated this in the superior league and team he is currently with. Hargreaves' fame in Germany is largely due to his England appearances rather than any stellar play for Bayern. It is quite possible this will change in the future but he has by no means been a star for Bayern so far. Your argument seems to be that anyone who plays for Bayern is a star. If you think this is just my biased opinion look on some of the Bayern fan forums and see how the fans are roasting Hoeness for not selling Hargreaves for the inflated transfer fee that ManU is offering. There are many comments along the lines of borderline Bayern starter, mediocre overrated player and we could get three players as good as Hargreaves for the transfer fee being offered. Sure Hargreaves is a good player but he is far from being a star at the club level so far. In addition, I think that Hargreaves fame in Canada for playing for England has been very limited. Most people don't know who he is and those who do mostly don't know he is Canadian.
I think CanuckFan is a misnomer. He has a clear allegence to Canadian players but none towards the Canadian team. Furthermore, he seems to have given up all hope of the system changing in a way that the Canadian players he supports so strongly could perform and flourish within the Canadian system. In my view, it is with players such as Jonathan de Guzman that the system can change. I refuse to give up hope that both Canadian players and the Canadian team can excel together.