Revs News, 11/5: Baker Gone?

You know, I always love to see Cancela's quotes. What a professional and a class act. I hope we have him back for next season. Wasn't he hurt for a lot of September, or was that only a rumor?

 

He had a foot injury. But afterwards, he wasn't slotted into the starting lineup til after a few games, which arose this "controversy".

 

I think this would have to be one of my (if not the #1) complaint I have about Nicol. While I am sure that there is a certain amount of gamesmanship that goes with not publicly discussing players knocks and bumps, this is clearly one of the downsides. While Cancela may have been on the bench to help heal a nagging (or niggling) knock, we end up speculating that somehow Cancela was in the doghouse or that Baker (insert another name if you wish) is lazy or losing his touch.

Would it be so terrible to at some point publicly mention that a particular player was resting or healing or whatever and that is why he sat out?

 

While your position is valid from a fans perspective there is also another way of looking at this---by not saying what he's thinking and what player is healthy or not a coach keeps the other teams coach guessing right up until the match. While we fans have an interest in knowing whats going on, it's the coaches job to make the absolute best use of every tool and trick he has to gain an advantage over the other team. Holding all team info close to the vest is one of those tools.

 

It is also called cheating.

Every week, each MLS team, just like each NFL team, releases a list of injured players/playing status.

To not follow the rules is not gamesmanship, a tool or a trick. It is cheating.

Those are the rules. The very same rules that allows the team that was tied for the worst in the league to get into the playoffs via tiebreakers.

Can't have it both ways there, Doc. Unless you are an advocate of not following the rules.

 

As usual Frank you have a very limited grasp of reality. There is a huge difference between a player that is sufficiently injured that he can't play or is questionable and a player, like MOST PLAYERS once the season is underway that is nursing an injury. Most players play right through these injuries and are never listed as "Questionable" or "Probible"--in most cases the injury is never mentioned. No one ever said that Pepe had a significant injury--what was said--after the fact-- was that he was nursing a minor foot injury. Is that the reason why he wasn't playing? I doubt it---but thats something for the coach to know and for the other teams coach to guess and for us fans to speculate.

 

The injury list is pretty clear - Out, Doubtful, Questionable, listed during a certain day each week. Teams can be fined if they are caught lying. Which is cheating.

If someone has fallen out of favour or is not completely fit on matchday in the coach's eyes, then that is the coach's decision. But if the player falls into one of those catagories on the day that the league list is done then they belong on the list, or it is cheating.

 

Thats what I said.

 

Untrue. NHL teams are notorious for doing this. A lot of teams claim a player is listed injured for a different reason then how they really are injured (ex., a player could be listed as having a sprained knee but actually has a sprained wrist).

I haven't read it in the rulebooks that a team can get fined for not listing players injured. In fact, the only rules that MLSnet have about injured players are those of the injured reserve (Moore and Llamosa) and replacement players. I don't get how not claiming a player to be injured is cheating. If the guy is not playing because he either has a knock or is in the doghouse, how is that considered cheating?

 

Don't say something is "untrue" and then follow up by admitting 'you don't know the rules.' That only confirms ignorance of a topic.

MLS and NFL teams release weekly injury reports, and they are required to be truthful. So if they're not truthful when it is required, what would you call it?

Never seen one? Here it is, straight from MLSnet.com:


Injury Report
Updated: 10/14/04
Eastern Conference
CHICAGO FIRE
OUT: FW Ante Razov (R ankle bone spur); MD Logan Pause (R foot stress fracture); DOUBTFUL: MD Justin Mapp (R knee LCL sprain); QUESTIONABLE: MD Chris Armas (R knee surgery)

COLUMBUS CREW
OUT: MD Ross Paule (post concussion symptoms); DF Stephen Herdsman (L groin strain)

D.C. UNITED
OUT: FW Thiago Martins (L knee surgery)

METROSTARS
OUT: MD Mark Lisi (R ankle sprain); DF Tenywa Bonseu (L Achilles tendon tear); DOUBTFUL: MD Michael Bradley (R foot stress fracture)

NEW ENGLAND REVOLUTION
OUT: GK Adin Brown (concussion); DF Carlos Llamosa (L knee sprain); FW Joe-Max Moore (R knee sprain); GK Kyle Singer (R shoulder sprain); DF Joe Franchino (R hip strain); DOUBTFUL: DF Steve Howey (R quad strain)

Western Conference
COLORADO RAPIDS
OUT: DF Joey DiGiamarino (concussion); DF Jeff Stewart (R knee); FW Zizi Roberts (R knee swelling); DOUBTFUL: FW John Spencer (R groin strain); MD Darryl Powell (R knee sprain); DF Gary Sullivan (L lower leg); QUESTIONABLE: FW Jean-Philippe Peguero (abdominal strain); PROBABLE: MD Seth Trembly (R ankle sprain)

DALLAS BURN
QUESTIONABLE: MD Eric Quill (L hamstring strain); PROBABLEF Steve Jolley (R ankle sprain)

KANSAS CITY WIZARDS
OUT: MD Chris Klein (L knee torn ACL); MD Preki (L ankle surgery); QUESTIONABLE: GK Tony Meola (R Achilles tendon strain); PROBABLE: FW Davy Arnaud (L MCL sprain)

LOS ANGELES GALAXY
DOUBTFUL: DF Chris Aloisi (L knee MCL sprain); DF Hong Myung-Bo (L calf strain)

SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES
OUT: DF Chris Roner (R ankle surgery); DF Eddie Robinson (L LCL sprain); QUESTIONABLE: DF Troy Dayak (R shoulder sprain); DF Jeff Agoos (lower back strain); PROBABLE: Craig Waibel (L hamstring strain)

 

The FULL MLS rulebook is far from public property. I think the NFL has a strict fine policy for concealing injuries and think it was the Patriots who lately got in (or at least near to) trouble for noncompliance?

 

When did I say that "i don't know the rules"?

 

Indirect quotes, my boy.
Here is your direct quote: "I haven't read it in the rulebooks that a team can get fined for not listing players injured."

Now read what Swedcrip34 wrote and you'll understand.

 

Given the knowledge that i was able to acquire I had facts that MLS does not fine teams for not listing injured players, I didn't assume. That's what you did, you assume that MLS fines teams if they don't list injured players. Show me where in the All-Mighty Rulebook it says MLS fines teams for not listing injured players.