Revs GM statesKrafts have lost a ton of money on soccer

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Andy_B, Aug 7, 2002.

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  1. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    The "Good News Fairy" has arrived. ;)

    Thanks for the link. :)
     
  3. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CSN: Are you guys on a break-even budget for this year?

    Todd Smith: No. I don't think any team is, certainly not within the structure of the league.
     
  4. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Thanks for the link, Andy.

    "...certainly not within the structure of the league" is an interesting phrase. I'll let others parse that every which way they want.
     
  5. nadpolice9

    nadpolice9 New Member

    Nov 26, 2001
    Boston , MA
    dont listen to this guy. he is a complete moron.
     
  6. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Talk about misrepresenting an interview Andy. Ges.
     
  7. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    That's out of context. What he said was "under the structure of the league" no team is making money. Duh. With Metro losing money by the bucketload, they lose enough to wipe out the profits of all the other teams combined. And how a team that cost 5 million to buy and 5 million a year to operate cannot be making money in a stadium he owns is beyond me.

    15,000 fans times 14 games times 15 bucks equals 3.1 million dollars on ticket revenue alone. Does not include signage, concessions, parking, souvenirs, and local sponsors. Add in just 5 dollars a game per person extra on whatever else, and you add a million. 10 dollars to park 5,000 cars adds 700,000 in parking revenue.

    And for Kraft, I don't care. They have more money that we'll ever see.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've been over the idea that there's 4 ways of looking at profitable. Let's take the Crew as an example.

    1. Does Lamar make money on soccer in Columbus?
    2. Does Lamar make money on the Crew? (The difference between this and #1 is that #1 would include money from concerts, internationals, high school football, etc. This and #3 and #4 ONLY count MLS stuff.)
    3. Do the Crew make money if you DON'T count their share of league losses?
    4. Do the Crew make money if you DO count their share of league losses?

    To me, the phrase "within the structure of the league" isn't in there by accident. It precludes the Crew making money by the toughest definition, #4.

    I think we all knew that already.

    The fact that he had to throw that phrase in there indicates, to me, that the Crew make money for Hunt by one of the other 3 definitions.

    And I think we all knew that already, as well.

    If anything, that phrase indicates that the loosest definition, #1, isn't necessary. To me, this is a sign that the Crew helps Hunt by definition #2 or #3.

    I had a hard time following this. The way the answer touches on both competitive issues and financial issues, I found confusing. I can't figure out whether he's saying the Krafts make money on the Revs (which is possible, I guess, esp. if you throw in that the USSF wouldn't give CMGI games without the Revs), but STILL aren't happy, because the team stinks. OR, is he saying the team is losing money for the Krafts (maybe including their share of league losses, and maybe not), period, and then threw in the wins and losses comment as an afterthought.
     
  9. GreatZar

    GreatZar Member

    Colorado Rapids
    United States
    Mar 29, 1999
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well...let's take some fake data and run with it...

    Revenues:
    NE: +1M
    Metro: -3M
    DC: 0M
    Clb: +1M
    Chi: -3M
    LA: -3M
    SJ: -5M
    Col: +2M
    KC: -2M
    Dal: -2M
    ----------
    League: -14M/yr
    49% of local expenses stay local and 51% go to league in Single Entity (and Dallas is 100% league) so...
    League shared expenses: -8M/yr
    Team SEM costs: -0.67M each

    Bottom Line:
    NE: -0.2M
    Metro: -1.7M
    DC: -0.7M
    Clb: -0.2M
    Chi: -2.2M
    LA: -2.2M
    SJ: -3.2M
    Col: +0.3M
    KC: -1.7M
    Dal: -1.7M

    Just hypothetical, but I'd agree that no team is in the black (maybe Colorado this year with 22K attendance and MUCH better stadium deal) when you factor in 51% of a team's bottom line is also the league's bottom line.
     
  10. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, bite me

    Second, how did I misrepresent the following statement in my subject title?


    Third, really bite me.

    Fourth, ************ off.

    Andy
     
  11. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whatever sourpuss.

    Don't talk to other Big Soccer members that way. You're not untouchable you know.

    You might look good in Yellow.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Andy, to be fair, when I read the piece, I was surprised at the weight given to various issues. From your post, I thought it was going to revolve around financial questions, when it was more geared toward Rev-specific win-loss issues.
     
  13. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was this necessary in public?
     
  14. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    ###MODERATOR'S NOTE###

    Calm down, everyone. You guys know better.

    Andy was just passing on what Todd Smith said about the Revs' business side in an article that did deal with mostly on-the-field issues. It's up to everyone for themselves to decide whether Smith is speaking the gospel truth or whether nadpolice9 is right.
     
  15. snorklefish

    snorklefish New Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    Miami, FL
    I wonder how much the Revolution and Crew pay to companies owned or controlled by Kraft and Hunt? For all I know, CMGI charges the Patriots and Revolution a kazillion dollars in rent each year... dooming them to the red every year.

    The point is, the owner's can hide the coin a hundred different ways. Only the owners know whether they're making any money. An owner telling you his team won't break even is absolutely worthless.

    What I am sure of, however, is that the profits or losses of MLS and its teams are TRIVIAL compared to the net worth of the owner's.
     
  16. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh I am sorry.

    Please feel free to state idiotic things like "Talk about misrepresenting an interview", I am sure no one will ever call you on it.

    I am still waiting to see how your interpetation of the following quote differed from what I said in the subject.

    "The one thing that has been constant through this is that they have lost, on any scale, a tremendous amount of money to support soccer in this area."

    And you already look like a fool so I guess we are even.

    Andy
     
  17. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dave, I just thought that the financial snippets would have been of interest in the B&M forum. I guess I was wrong.

    I will try to be more careful about posting information in the future.

    Andy
     
  18. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2,423 word article.

    "The one thing that has been constant through this is that they have lost, on any scale, a tremendous amount of money to support soccer in this area."

    28 words.

    "No. I don't think any team is, certainly not within the structure of the league. We're trying our best to close the gap, and we'll see what the future holds for us."

    32 words.

    The rest did not mention money or losses. If that's the focus you want to make on the article fine. For me, it is a complete misrepresentation. I'd read that article before and expected a total different link. The article was a reaction to the badering that Todd got from Gus Martins and the people on the Revs board. He was looking for sympathy by mentioning those "facts".

    But fine. Tell me to bite you and ************ off and that I'm an idiot. Great. Very inappropriate.

    And Chad, great of you to focus on my simple statement that to focus on someone telling a fellow member to ************ off.
     
  19. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would you focus on anything else in a B&M forum????????????????????????????????

    You are not making any sense here.

    For years we have been posting articles that have small snippets of finacial information in them. And you choose now to say that I misrepresented the article?????

    I can't for the life of me figure out what your problem is with me posting this article which had a couple of snippets about business.

    I never said the article was all business, you assumed that, which is your fault, not mine.

    You had absolutely no reason to say I misrepresented the article knowing the history of this board.

    You both started this and you are wrong IMO.

    Gee, do you think that is because you deserved it?

    Andy
     
  20. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Business is also the operations of an organization. That was discussed alot.

    My one line statement was probably over the top. I should have writen more, but got caught up with something at work.

    I think its a shame that Todd chose that forum to share that information because I think he was looking for sympathy.

    IMO, there was alot more to the article, that's all.

    My statement wasn't meant to turn your screws, that's for sure.
     
  21. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a lot of background to this which I am sure you have been following, which included Todd making somewhat of a fool of himself on Big Soccer, attacking a guy who not only knows more about soccer than Todd does, but has been around the US scene twice as long as Todd has.

    All well and good. That still does not explain why you think the subject of this thread is misrepresenting.

    I never said the whole article was about the Krafts losses. Read the subject title and tell me what it wrong with it, ignoring what ever the rest of the article says?

    ok, I apologize for telling you to f^ck off. You can still bite me though :)
     
  22. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple things.

    If Garber has read this interview, I imagine he does not agree. First, no doubt, Todd Smith is not in the inner circle of the financial gurus at MLS so he is talking off the top of his head - like me.

    Second, Garber has stated on repeated occasion that the Crew make money. That I remember for sure. Garber may have also said that the Revs make money.

    The key here is how Todd and MLS want to define profitable. Money into pocket A (Revs), transfer to pocket B (the razor) to pocket C (Kraft). Pocket A is empty.

    Just to be fair:

    I read this column a few days ago even though the money mentioned is a small part of the article, it is the one thing I remembered most - because it was most disturbing as well as opposite what Garber has been repeating.

    Two of the finest posters on BS trading punches - can't we all get along?
     
  23. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Andy.
     
  24. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    ###MODERATOR'S NOTE###

    Edited to note you two have shaken hands. Thanks.

    ---------------------------

    Personally, I think GPK is right in that Smith's looking to get his side of the story out there, and finding CyberSoccerNews to be willing to let him get his side out there. Classic spin/damage control, as the cynic said.
     
  25. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was this before The Crash, or since?
     

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