Remaining best 14 (after the 9 locks)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by RalleeMonkey, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The troll army readies for battle.
     
  2. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    A troll is generally considered someone who goes against common sentiment in an attempt to bother/upset people. Or, from a Google search.... One who "purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.."

    Wonder who those definitions apply to... Hmmmmmm
     
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  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yes, 10+ goals would be a great season.

    Bremen had the 8th most goals in the Bund in 18/19 though with almost the same roster. 16 more goals than in 19/20. Was it bad form and injuries, or was it sales of players and a coach that has been found out. Or a bit of each?

    We will see.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'm not crazy about the definition which seems a bit narrow. But let's skip that for now. The common sentiment (with international managers) is that a player should be playing at his club to expect a call up to the national team. Klinsmann said as much when he was USA's manager. Therefore, it is controversial to say:

    Do you agree you were being controversial?
     
  5. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    No, not being controversial. Do we have a poll function here? Let's see how many people agree with me vs. you, if McKennie is a starter for the US if he gets virtually no minutes. I think we both know the answer.

    What is controversial, however? Saying a 25 mil player isn't a starter for the US.
     
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  6. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Pomykal > Morales
    Ledezma > Green
    Llanez > Bedoya
    Sands > CCV
     
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  7. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    I love when people put CCV on these types of lists I am not sure if I should say it or let someone else give you the bad news.
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #133 Excellency, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
    Just so people are not dis-informed, the term I used was troll army which was to suggest something like a Russian troll farm the meaning of which you can find here.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...estigation-what-russian-troll-farm/346159002/
    Do Russian troll farms have a poll function? I'd say that IS their function.
    You are doing fine so far. March in step.

    edit: b.t.w., if you are in the business, how much is McKennie's transfer worth to his agent if the sale is consummated? I'm just curious
     
  9. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    You must not be understanding the definition...unless you are referring to an army of mythical, cave dwelling people, the definition of troll doesn't change, whether Russian or not. You might not be crazy about the definition, but there is only one person here who "purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.."

    I'm not in the business, nor do I care about agent fees.

    I care about getting our best 11 players on the field at the same time. McKennie is undoubtedly one of those.

    This is very simple.
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Ok, I'm a-outta here, but would just wonder why you are so concerned about McKennie's "level" rather than a single iota about what is going on with his actual on field career. No need to reply since you already did and we are boring people to tears with this stuff.
     
  11. CZM4

    CZM4 Member

    United States
    Jun 10, 2020


    https://smarterscout.com/articles/b...mnt-fabian-ruiz-napoli-luiz-gustavo-righteous
     
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  12. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it was that the Tottenham fans (and press) just didn't think Dempsey was the "upgrade" they were looking for that colored the glasses. Between "Fulham player" and "American" it's easy to understand why they felt that way, even if they were very much overly harsh in their assessment.
     
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  13. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Looking at the roster, looks like Kruse was a real loss even if he wasn't as productive the following year w/Union Berlin. He did put together 20 goals and assists combined in '18-'19, other than Rashica who was as productive as always in '18-'19, and '19-'20, the next best guy up had 12 goals and assists last year. Seems like a bit of all of that. They didn't add anyone remotely like Kruse unless I'm mistaken, so not expecting much change personally.
     
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  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yes, Kruse was a big loss. They added guys like Fulkrug (sp?) but they got hurt or were bad.

    We will see, but I think the coach is the problem. If Sargent keeps his form from end of last season, he should get a move in one of the next windows. Especially if Bremen go down.
     
  15. Konut

    Konut Member+

    May 31, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He also led the team in goals per minute. I was surprised that he didn’t stay longer, and also get more starts.
     
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  16. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a hypothetical question.

    If Nagbe decided he would accept calls again, where would he be for you guys? He has been playing some #10 at times. Some #6. And mostly #8 of course.

    Starter? Possible starter depending on tactics? On the 23? Alternate? Not on radar?

    I have to say, an Adams, Nagbe, McKennie MF trio with Pulisic & Reyna wide seems awful enticing.

    Pity he seems set in not accepting calls.
     
  17. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i wouldnt play him as an actual 6 or 10 in any scenario. as a berhalter "attacking 8" id take aaronson and lletget over him.

    the only place i see him competing is with yueill as a berhalter dlp/backing up mckennie as actual 8 in a regular system (which is also where id play yueill).

    so displacing yueill is his only way in, for me. i go with the guy who hasnt said no for a couple of years. let him keep enjoying time with his family.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think there are a ton of guys who would work better. I see the team as get it and go, not putz around. There is no need for a guy to dribble and play backwards. If Reyna is on the wing, Morris, Boyd, Weah, Arriola, Llanez are on the bench. For Nagbe? Going to be over 30 soon? Hard pass.

    Just as a CM (can't be a 6 because he doesn't defend even at Trapp level), i'd take Lletget, Holmes, Green, Pomykal, Yueill, Cappis, Aaronson over him easy. For team chemistry I'd take Roldan over him.

    He doesn't want to play and he is not needed.
     
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  19. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member+

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nagbe does not put up the type of numbers you need from a #10. his best season for goals was 2013 with 9 @ Portland. In 2014 he had 7 assists and 1 goal. His last two years at Atlanta 2018 he had 0 goals and 3 assists. In 2019 he had 2 goals and 4 assists. The best description I have heard of him is he can dribble a ball in a closet. He is a ball retainer. He will receive the ball and hold the ball and then distribute it to others. He can get you out of trouble in possession. As an Atlanta fan he was very very frustrating to watch offensively when he would many times miss the goal completely when he should of at least worked the keeper.
     
  20. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #145 TrueCrew, Sep 8, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
    Well, it is all hypothetical anyway since he is not accepting calls. But I disagree with you guys (shocking).

    But my $0.02 as someone who has watched most Crew games this year:

    1) He is a much better defender than Trapp. Not a tackler, but he will win the ball back. A lot.

    2) He is the best possession player in our pool by a country mile. WAY better than McKenie, Adams, or JY. Or Bradley.

    3) This has an effect on the defense. It gets a whole lot better when the MF never loses the ball. 8 shutout in 10 games with the same D as last year save for Valenzuela healthy.

    4) He can play anywhere in the MF. Deep lying tempo setting #6 (lets Adams & McKenie push up). Handy vs teams pressing us (no TOs) or teams bunkering where a stud DM is not needed, or late game down a goal. The best connector 8 in the pool. And can be a serviceable #10 in situations protecting a lead or attacking a bunker.

    He gives the manager a ton of tactical flexibility as the game wears on because he is useful in various roles, up or down a goal.

    Nagbe, Opara, and Bedoya are 3 older guys who could really help the team but do not get calls (Opara, Bedoya) or do not accept them (Nagbe).
     
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  21. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Opara is the confusing one to me. I get Bedoya is aging out (although I'd prefer him as the token veteran compared to those who have gotten called) and Nagbe isn't interested. But, Opara, MLS defender of the year in 2 of the last 3 years and he can't get a call while Long and Zimmerman get multiple chances? I admit I don't see enough of MLS to dig deep on this one, but I guess I'm confused how many MLS center back have gotten chances while a guy who seems to have been one of the most successful center backs in the league for multiple years is completely ignored. Has anyone won more individual MLS honors with only 1 cap to show?
     
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  22. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    #147 KALM, Sep 8, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
    I think I can understand it for this cycle. Long and Zimmerman were both 25 or 26 when Gregg took over, and they'd both be around a prime age for CBs by the end of the cycle if they worked out. Ike will be 33, pushing 34 by the end of the cycle, which is traditionally a bit older than the CBs that have featured successfully for us.

    Last cycle should have been his time, but I believe he was injured for more or less an entire two years between 2014 and 2015. And then, during Benny and Ike's podcast with Bruce Arena as a guest, Ike also mentioned that Arena wanted to call him up for the 2017 Gold Cup, but Kansas City blocked the request. (Arena would neither confirm nor deny, probably because there's nothing official that I believe allows clubs to do that.)
     
  23. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyway, to reply to the OP:

    1) 8 locks (not 9): Steffen; Dest, Brooks; Adams, McKennie; Pulisic, Reyna; Altidore.

    These guys have to start when healthy. I put Reyna wide, thus displacing Morris (who is a 23 lock). ARob is not a lock for me. But a healthy Jozy is. Depending on opponent & tactics, I either start another CM/AM alongside Adams & McKennie or a 2nd striker.

    2) Squad locks = 4. Guzan (best vet keeper); ARob (need a non-Dest LB option), Ream (Brooks backup), Morris.

    3) Probables = 3. Cannon (RB), Aaronson (CM/AM), Sargent (CF).

    So, that gives me 15. I am pretty confident these 15 make my 23. Beyond that it gets murky.

    GK: Steffan; Guzan
    FB: Dest (RB/LB/WM), ARob (LB), Cannon (RB)
    CB: Brooks (LCB), Ream (LCB/LB)
    CM: Adams (DM/CM/RM/RB), McKennie (CM/DM/CAM), Aaronson (AM/CAM),
    WM/AM/W: Pulisic (WM/W/AM), Reyna (WM/W/AM), Morris (WM/W)
    CF: Altidore; Sargent.

    That leaves 1 more at some position groups (GK, FB, AM/Wing), 2 more CBs, 2 more CMs, and 1 wildcard. CB and GK are the most straightforward in terms of roster construction, so I will start there.

    RCB. I put Ike Opara at RCB and let the others fight it out for the last spot (Miazga, Long, Zimmerman, Richards, etc). Opara is the best RCB we have right now. Period. He should play. Period. Age doesn't bother me, yet. Leaning Miazga for the last spot, but that is open. If Opara starts to falter, then another spot opens. But I let him set the mark & challenge the others to beat him out.

    GK#3. Open comp. Turner. Horvath. Some others. Leaning Turner.

    That gets me to 18. 5 spots left. With only 3 in CM.

    DM. I know McKennie can play here some, but I want him further up the pitch. Need a #2 DM. I go for Morales. 19.

    #4 FB. The dilemna here is does one pick a natural LB with Dest starting at RB, Cannon as the deputy, and ARob as the only natural LB on the roster, despite the fact Yedlin is our next best FB. With Ream's ability to play some stay at home LB, and Dest's ability to play either side, I say no & take Yedlin. 20.

    The D should now be set. 3 GKs. 4 FBs. 4 CBs. 2 DMs (3 counting McKennie). The last 3 spots should go to CM, CM/CAM, WM/W, or CF types. The question is how to distribute them?

    I cannot see 3G assembling a roster without a pure possession guy in CM. I think Bradley will be too old. I prefer Nagbe here but he is not accepting calls. Holmes is not quite that type of player. So I go with Yueill. Some will see him more as a #6. But I think #8. 21.

    The thought of Altidore on a squad with only 2 CFs seems like a bad idea. Though Morris can play up top, and Pulisic/Reyna can play SS roles. I try to kill 2 birds with one stone and go with Weah. 22.

    I don't really see the need for another #10 type at spot 23. I have Aaronson, McKennie (plus Pulisic & Reyna) who can play there. Plus outside of Pomykal, do we have one? Still, it is a possibility.

    If you don't buy Weah/Morris as legit #3 CF types, we need another CF type. Which screams Zardes.

    Now, Dest & Yedlin can play some wide MF. Adams too. Different types. So we seem set with Puli, Reyna, Morris, Weah. Though my roster has those guys providing cover at other spots? Another game changer? Llanez?

    Do we need a scrapper type (Arriola, Bedoya?). Another CM type (Holmes)?

    I'd go with Bedoya today. But in 2 years? Plus, he has been critical of USSF, so it ain't happening. I do not think Arriola or Zardes are top shelf skill wise, but I do think we need a scrapper with the last spot. I'd love to stick Arriola at LB and bump Yedlin, but I'd have to see it some.

    At present, the thought of Altidore getting hurt and the fact Bedoya won't get a call forces me to take Zardes.
     
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  24. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry for the length. I was thinking it through as I posted.

    I would start the Arriola at LB experiment immediately. If it works, I bump Yedlin.

    GK (3). Steffen; Guzan, Turner.
    FB (4). Dest, ARob; Cannon, Yedlin.
    CB (4). Brooks, Opara; Ream, Miazga.
    CM (5): Adams, McKennie; Morales, Yueill, Aaronson.
    AM (4). Pulisic, Reyna; Morris, Weah.
    CF (3). Altidore; Sargent, Zardes.
     
  25. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, Arriola is still rehabbing from his torn acl. So it couldn't be started immediately. But I concur this should be an experiment when he is ultimately ready, as he already wasn't creative enough or technical enough for a winger. But he's ok in possession, was pretty quick/fast, played really hard, 2-footed, and can cross. So we should be able to get some use out of him as a fb, and probably not rb considering all the options there.
     

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