It was noted in the best 11 thread that 9 of the positions are pretty much locks ---------------------------? Puli-----------------Reyna---------------Morris ----------Adams---------------Wes ARob--------Brooks------?------------Dest -------------------Steffen Now, people will argue about ARob and Morris of Weah starts playing. Fine. The focus of this thread is how do you fill out the remaining 14 slots. For me, it's a battle between Jozi and Josh up top. And I'm just going to leave the CB spot open for now. So, F: Jozi, Josh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------2 W: Puli, Morris, Weah, Bedoya (for now)-----------------------------------------4 MF: Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Green, Aaronson, Morales------------------6 FB: Robinson, Dest, Cannon, Yedlin------------------------------------------------4 CB: Brooks, Long, CCV; Miazga-----------------------------------------------------4 K: Steffen, Horvath, ? -------------------------------------------------------------------3 I'm sure people will disagree. I'm interested to see the other/better options.
Good thread idea. I gotta think on a few before I give a list, but this where things get interesting. The first few names on everyone's list are pretty much the same. This second group I expect to see a lot more disagreement about.
What I think Berhalter would do right now: F: Altidore, Zardes W: Morris, Arriola (Reyna as a winger) MF: Lletget, Roldan, Yueill, Bradley FB: Cannon CB: Ream, Long, Miazga GK: Johnson, Guzan What I would do right now: F: Altidore, Sargent W: Morris, Weah, Arriola MF: Holmes, Sands, Pomykal FB: Yedlin CB: Ream, CCV, Miazga GK: Turner, Guzan This will change very quickly. If Balogun (rumored interest from Southampton, Stuttgart, and Brentford) starts playing and scoring goals, he jumps right to the top of my depth chart. And if he sees an opportunity to start at a World Cup, he may just switch to the US. I also like what I see from Gioacchini and think he will move to a top 5 league after this season. If any of the young wingers (Harper, Mighten, Llanez, de la Fuente) break out, Arriola gets dropped. I like Mighten and Harper a lot. The central midfield situation is fluid. Sands and Pomykal could be overtaken by Ledezma, Aaronson, Johnny, Sands, Yueill, Kayo, Lletget, or Morales. Cannon could definitely overtake Yedlin if he plays well in Portugal and Yedlin continues his bad form. The CB situation after Brooks is murky right now. Ream, Miazga, CCV, Richards, Otasowie, Sandler, Pierie, McKenzie, Robinson, Long, and Zimmerman are all contenders. Ream is a pretty safe pick as the backup to Brooks. After that, hopefully one of these guys moves to or gets minutes at a club in a top 5 league. Richards is on the roster over CCV if he gets minutes for Bayern. If everyone were to stay where they are right now, it would come down to who’s in the best form.
Don't 100% agree with the locks, but wouldn't change my overall roster. Order isn't necessarily relevant. CF: Altidore, Sargent W: Weah (if healthy), Arriola (if healthy), Llanez if not M: Pomykal, Holmes, D: Ream, Long, Cannon, M Robinson GK: Horvath, Guzan That leaves two open spots I'd use across a third midfielder (torn across several options), Llanez as an additional attacker off the bench, an additional CF because Jozy's probably getting hurt, and an extra defender, either at LB, RB or CB. The third midfielder right now is a tough choice for me: Morales has experience and more defensive, which my roster feels like it might need; I like Yeuill more than most and think it's useful to have a younger, better offensive player than Morales around to back up D Mid so McKennie wouldn't have to slide back; Ledezma or Aaronson as an offensive play; Sands as a straight DMid play; Lletget as the "if we played a game today" kind of guy even if he's redundant with Holmes/Pomykal. Our backup, true LB are so underpowered, I'd be strongly tempted to go Ream or swing a RB over if Robinson can't go. Which could open up a backup CB spot (Miazga) or RB (a number of guys). Right now is tough; it's almost easier to project forward two years where I feel more confident in some of the less proven youth today.
This is a good question. Here's my list of guys who would definitely be in my 23 even if not necessarily starting: FW: Sargent. I'm still on the fence with regard to starting him, but even if he's not a starter, he's definitely on the roster. CM: Lletget. Veteran guy in his prime with a low ceiling, high floor. Can probably fill in at the 10 or 8, maybe even as a wing who cuts inside. CB: Ream. Obvious backup for Brooks stylistically, still playing at a reasonably high level, and would be one of the few O-30 guys on the roster to provide some guidance to the young guys. Could also fill in at LB. RB: Cannon and Yedlin. I agree with starting Dest at RB, but I see no reason to cut one of these guys to bring a dud of a LB as the backup to Robinson. If Robinson can't go, Dest can flip to LB, and one of these guys can fill in on the right. Could also use one at RW in a more defensive setup. GK: Guzan. No younger GKs seem to be stepping up (other than maybe Turner), so I'd bring an experienced guy as the #3. The rest is harder. FW: I still think Altidore is our best forward when healthy, but you can't really ever count on that these days. We know Zardes can suffice against probably the lower half of the Ocho, but won't be helpful much beyond that. Maybe I'd roll the dice with Altidore. Wings: Weah for sure if he gets back to where he was pre-injury. Maybe Arriola (again assuming pre-injury form) in order to have his hustle and defense for a more defensive setup. Though if any young guys (Llanez, De la Feunte, Harper) break out and start getting 1st team minutes, they nab that spot. CM: Probably Yueill and Morales. Yueill hasn't been bad when he's played, despite the general BS dislike of the insistence on a less defensive-minded 6, and he provides a bit more passing range from CM. Morales, again, would be someone for a more defensive setup. Pomykal, Aaronson, Holmes, and Ledezma are all close. CB: Probably Miazga and M. Robinson. I still think Miazga has been the best of bunch who've had caps at RCB the past couple years, but this is really shaky. Apparently, Reading doesn't want him back, and he's on the move again. I'm not totally sold on Robinson, but he'd be the one speedier guy of the group. Bayern just needs to let Richards go out on loan already and let him get up to speed. GK: Probably Turner as the #2 at this point, though I don't watch NE enough to be totally sold on him. Horvath just isn't playing and doesn't seem in a hurry to move.
I am sure i have forgotten someone, but this seemed pretty straight forward to me. Striker (2) Sargent, Altidore, [Sebatchieu*, Giochino] Wings (4) Pulisic, Weah, Morris, Llanez Amid (2) Reyna, Ledezma, [Lletget, Aaronson] 6/8 (4) Adams, Mckennie, Morales, Holmes, [Pomykal] OB (4) Dest, Robinson, Yedlin, Cannon CB (4) Brooks, Miazga, CCV, EPB, [Richards, Otosowie] GK (3) Steffen, Horvath, ??? [guys in brackets are alternatives] * I would sacrifice someone to get him into our program
@RalleeMonkey , @CZM4 , and @gogorath , how do you guys justify Long in the team, let alone starting XI? I am not looking for the theory that Brooks needs a speedy parter, but based on his play... both with NYRB and the USMNT.
We're not really deep at CB, and it would be great if one of the young strikers took a developmental leap. I feel like goals will be hard to come by.
Sorry about that. I saw Long in a couple of posts and went back quickly to see who they were. I missed the part about what you thought Berhalter would do.
Frankly, I don't really have a problem with any of the lists. I don't agree with all of the players but you could easily ask the same question about a guy like Weah or Ledezma for various reasons. People like who they like and, unfortunately, due to Covid, there is far more speculation that is required in post like this. Personally, I would not consider Brooks a lock based upon injury (a lock, to me is someone that you pencil in AND you expect to be available). Jozy, I like, but would lean toward Sargent or ?, but really don't think I have a good enough feel to argue with for or against any of the players because there are so many data points missing. So I'm fine with all of the lists (including Brooks as a lock for now). I don't really see any players that are obviously out of place. I guess I spent two paragraphs saying I don't know....sorry if I wasted anyone's time.
I want to move on from guys that will never be good enough and think there is always room for a couple up and comers Weah in my mind is only a question because of his injuries. He proved more than enough to me with his play in 2018 and first half of 2019. He is supposed to be in his club roster this weekend. Ledezma is on the cusp of breaking into PSV's squad. He hasnt looked out of place with them in preseason. I think he is best pure attacking mid we have. He is going to adapt to the PSV first team this season and think we should be doing the same with the USMNT. He is the type of player I would want to throw on for a 6/8 if we are down a goal and tee opponent has packed it in.
Guess I don't really understand why Reyna is one of the 9 locks while Sargent isn't? Both are scoring every game in preseason. Werder's manager basically just said they are building the offense around a 20 year old striker. And people still prefer Altidore? Guess we can add him to Long, as the two players getting the Bradley treatment (stuck in the lineup regardless of form or other superior players).
Frankly, I am fine with your picks. The reasoning you provide is logical and reasonable. They are who you think would be best. That, to me is all that matters. I find it interesting to see the other opinions....including yours. Each person is allowed to determine how much weight to assign injuries, potential and other factors but, ultimately, we will need to see how it plays out in the next few months for both the MLS and European players. To me, the list of players behind the locks is almost by definition the players that have to fight it out for a spot....ie they have competition and could lose their spot at any time or force their way into the 11. To me, a guy like Ledezma is intriguing but still hasn't proven he can play at a higher level. preseason is still preseason and we have all seen that it can lead to bigger things....or not. With the younger guys, (like Ledezma, Aaronson, Pomykal, Llanez et al) there is a huge amount of extrapolation and speculation that is required, so some of the hard choices are choosing between a young talent that may or may not reach the heights we (or at least many) expect and an older player that may be slightly better at the moment but spinning his wheels....whether that is in MLS or in Europe as some of our players are doing...
For me, I think the recent form of Sargent is of a quality to pencil him in as starter. Jozy doesn't seem to ever be healthy anyway. I'd definitely start Sargent over anyone else. But it depends on how you view WB. Are they a Europa League contending team or a relegation contending team. I think they have the personnel for the former but their manager is goofy. But it is hard to tell. If they are a relegation fodder team, then really, he is not an auto-starter for the USMNT, to me. He would be the default if nobody else is dominating a lesser league, but Jozy sometimes does still. I think Josh is primed and WB will be better and he will take a jump.
F: Jozy, Josh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------2 W: Puli, Morris, Weah, Boyd-----------------------------------------------------------4 MF: Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Pomykal, Holmes------------------------------6 FB: Robinson, Dest, Cannon, Yedlin------------------------------------------------4 CB: Brooks, Ream, CCV; Miazga-----------------------------------------------------4 K: Steffen, Horvath, Turner-------------------------------------------------------------3
I ignored things I have no way of knowing anything about such as injuries and covid and provided alternatives if players arent available. I guess Ledezma hasnt "proven" he can play at a higher level, but many have proven they cant. That leaves us a bunch of players with uncertainty. Ledezma is the only player in the list you provided that hasnt played for the USMNT. The only on of three who staked a claim to be in the side was Llanez. While it was only preseason, PSV play at a high tempo and adapting to the speed of play of the international game has historically been a big challenge for MLS players.
Don't really disagree, but if Reyna is an autostarter for the US at this point while he just has a bunch of sub appearances (maybe more this year, but we don't really know), that isn't a whole lot different than Werder's manager basically saying they are building around Sargent. If they are Europa level or below, I don't really see that mattering much. Those Kohfeldt quotes are key. If he's not lying, that says a great deal. How many other 20 year olds are a focal point of a team in a top 5 league, regardless of the team's performance (and that's not even considering that Bremen were a .500 team after Sargent took over for the most part after the restart).
miazga and sargent would fill out my ideal, for the next 6 months, non-covid, fitness not a factor first 11 (though i would use cannon over dest situationally), in more of a 4-3-3 gk turner rb cannon cm pomykal rw weah ^ im set on these guys, the rest im not... gk horvath- assuming a move/loan cb richards- assuming a move/loan cb long/epb/robinson/ccv- i dont get the uprising against long, i also dont see a lot between any of these guys lb vines/bello? who the hells knows? gloster/khf hopefully, in 6 months? dm sands- excepting a change in setup/roles (and not counting wes as both a starter and backup here) hes the second best dm- this isnt a glowing endorsement cm lletget/aaronson/ledezma- i think thats the order right now, but id go aaronson st zardes- nobody loves jozy more than me but hes not physically reliable, and zardes sucks a lot less to me as a sub. nova fits what i want to do but im not there yet. soto/pepi/toye/kelman? try those guys at lb and the lbs here? i dont know, man... lw arriola- not nearly as convinced as most re llanez, love arriola as a roster guy.
I like Sargent a lot but you don't make someone a lock based solely on preseason. Reyna has had more success in reg season at a younger age (at least marginally). I think he is also a higher profile player (although Sargent has been pretty high profile for us as well). I think that many if not most have Reyna to be a lock as a world class player which puts him as a lock for USMNT. I think many of those same people have at least some doubts about Sargent's ceiling and probably believe it lower than they previously thought.
I had Reyna in my Best XI before most (basically right when he graduated to Dortmund's first team), but to say he's had more regular season success than Sargent is ludicrous. Sargent has probably 2000 BL minutes, Reyna has 3 or 400. Sargent's manager just said he's basically the focal point of the team's attack now. To be clear, I have them both in my starting lineup, and love Reyna. Just bizarre to me how so many think they know sargent's ceiling, or have doubts about it, when he had a pretty good season last year in a horrendous situation. And how anyone could think Altidore is better than he is, when he's already surpassed Altidore's peak before his 21st bday. Also - most having Reyna as a lock to be a world class player? Let's settle down a bit here.
I don't have him in the starting 11. I included him in the roster b/c he's been getting the reps. I have zero attachment to that choice - really, with the whole thing, I was just trying to get the conversation started. Who are your starting CB's and their backups?
I have not liked what I have seen in the reps. I'd go with Brooks and Miazga. In reality, I'd have Miazga compete with CCV, EPB, Robinson, Richards, and Otosowie for the three CB spots. I think Miazga still has room to grow and Richards and Otosowie have the highest ceiling.
With Sargent, he has had far more minutes, but he has had his difficult times too. Yes the team is poor...nowhere near the quality of Dortmund but the fact is that after scoring immediately and making an impact, he has at times had difficulty. Other players have to deal with the same issues, Altidore at Hull and Bobby Wood are two examples of players doing poorly on bad teams that come to my mind. I am not trying to make any kind of comparison between Sargent and Altidore or Wood but am saying that it is subjective and I think you overstate the idea that suggesting Reyna's had more success than Sargent is ludicrouos. I will say, however that if you are looking only at quantity, Sargent has had more. The main difference between their 1st team experiences is that Sargent has had more time but has had ups and downs. Reyna, in his short time, has had ups but really hasn't had any down's that people have latched onto. I am not arguing against Sargent. You asked why some have Reyna as a lock and not Sargent. I gave my opinion on what the reasoning might be. Once preseason ends, we will see how both players do.