Regional War part 6.

But because, for example, the governor of the most populous state in the union attends a pro-Israel rally and then Israel doesstuff like the UN monitors targeting and now THIS, it becomes OUR problem.

US politicians should stay firmly shut up about this particular battle.

As far as I know, no US political figures have raised money to help Hezbollah murder innocent Israeli civilians? So why should they help raise money to create more Qanas? Makes no sense to me.

 

Well, that governor had a Nazi father, who gave him the same middle name as Hitler's father's first name, something Arnold managed to rise above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Schwarzenegger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hitler
Why are the opinions of US politicians your concern in Spain?
Name one US political figure who raised money to help Israel murder innocent civilians anywhere?

 

While I don't agree with your observation, I actually have no desire for Israel to have the "moral high ground" against enemies who wish to wipe Israel off the map.

 

This also doesnt help the publics perception of the US, just look at what the crowds were chanting today at the UN building in Lebanon, "Death to America"..ofcourse our Arab channels quickly turned off the mics and switched to replays as if nothing was said but being an arab myself i knw how most Arabs will take this and its not going to be good.

 

Not giddy in the least. But if the bombs start going off in Tehran:

So why do you bother?

 

Unfortunately, American (mis)perception of Muslims is that they talk crap, support terrorists, don't value human life and will riot at the drop of a cartoon. This is the image portrayed in countless videos from around the world. There does not seem to be a moderate alternative.

 

But I did condemn Israel agreeing to a cease-fire.

 

Chill out, Ben! There's enough stupidity in the world and on these boards without you joining in.

 

Yes, that is wrong. Complete disarmament/Crushing defeat for Hizbullah. That is the only end game that will make a difference.

 

Really? Just about every bit of civilian infrastructure in the entire country is now rubble. Exaggerate much?

good relations with Egypt? further soured relations with the rest of the Arab world...like they were on their way to becoming Israel's friend while suicide bombers murdered teenagers in pizza shops?

Worldwide condemnation? What else is new?





Israel's strategic objectives are nowhere near being met. They don't seem to have impacted on Hezbollah in any real meaningful way. In fact, the only thing they seem to have done is given them an excuse to use all those nice shiny rockets they've been saving up for just this kind of occassion.[/quote]

 

Your analysis seems correct. Unfortunately, both sides appear to have been spoiling for a fight. Neither has got what they wanted. Hezbollah thought that it could sneak into Israel with impunity, kill some soldiers & kidnap others to barter with. Israel thought that it could hit back hard & destroy Hezbollah, or damage its image in the Muslim world as capable of resisting Israel.

 

Wonderfully put...forgive us for wanting to withhold judgement until we can at least hear Israel's side.

 

1. It's too early to tell how much Hezbollah has been damaged.
2. Israel? Souring relations with "other" Arab countries? Say this to yourself 1000 times till you get it: "Wipe Israel off the face of the earth."
3. Israel will never, ever, never, ever get the "moral high ground" regardless of the war/fight. Ever.

 

The problem is its not really a misperception, my friends are pissed cause i have a Benayoun west ham shirt and want to burn it, and they aslo said im not a real muslim cuz i thought the reactions to the cartoons were ridiculous.

 

At the moment, I'm not interested in the propaganda game in the least (like our Iranian friends) which is why I'm not coming up with politically correct comments about the tragedies taking place in Lebanon. I'm sure as a result there could be a few neutrals who have a lower opinion of Israel and her supporters.

Israel wants to live in peace with Lebanon, yet Lebanon is part of alliance which seeks to exterminate Israel. In this equation, I'm only concerned about Israel.

I honestly think the war has been extremely successful for Israel. Countries that invade Israel should know they risk "rubblefication." Worst case scenario, Hezbollah will be pushed away from the border. Most likely, they'll be disarmed.

 

Words have meaning. You do your argument a disservice when you misrepresent the facts.

But to answer your point. We are less than 3 weeks, not months, not years, 3 weeks in to a war. You are already assessing the results of that war. I say its premature to say if Israel will achieve its objective.

One thing is sure, stopping in the middle due to world pressure will certainly be worse than 1) if they had not retaliated at all or 2) are allowed to finish the job of dismantling or seriously weakening Hizbullah.

Thoughts?

 

Israel has NEVER conducted a war where only a handful of soldiers have been killed. You are really comparing apples and oranges. I do not feel it's my place to tell Israel to be more aggressive, only that I would completely support them.

 

Exactly.. Was there any high moral ground for withdrawing, unilaterally, from Lebanon in 2000? If so, what did it do for Israel.

Was there any high moral ground for withdrawing, unilaterally, from Gaza. Again, if so, what did it do for Israel.

 

1. certainly the peace accords were a good thing. However, the relationship with Jordan is, comparatively, much better. Egypt is not a good relationship.

2. yes, there has been some diplomatic damage. But not with the arab world. There is no diplomatic chance with the arab world at this point. They are not ready to accept Israel's right to exist in secure borders.

3. Israel has always and will always depend on itself. Many of the posters here don't realize that the US has not always helped Israel. See Dennis Ross' book.

 

This being in the international forum and all, I think the bigger picture needs a look.
Egypt as mentioned by Caesar, is turning a little south, not because of support (I doubt Israel cares for that) but with the extremists. The islamic brootherhood in that country only gains from events like this. When democracy takes over or a revolution occurs there, guess who will be in charge... Same with Wahabiism in Saudi. This isnt just a Lebanon /Israel deal, its truly a regional thing and its feeding the wrong sides. Unfortunately much of this will not be felt for a while, and when it is, it will be impossible to overturn, and we will be here argueing as to why it ended that way.

 

You are factually incorrect. I believe the Yom Kippur war was one where Israel took big losses in the early stages and then went all the way to the Egyptian capital, which they returned.

Also understand that by having terrorists in the midst of civilians this is a much tougher fight. Just ask the US in Iraq.