Do you realize that it is vastly easier and quicker to go from NYC to Harrison than to the Meadowlands? Harrison isn't "giving away the NYC market." This is about something else - utter pomposity, misplaced nostalgia for 1978, fantasies of drawing 75k per game, something like that - but not getting closer to NY.
They are. All they are about is numbers, they don't give a good god damn about "growing" soccer in the US. They simply care about one thing : How many more people can they get to drink Red Bull through the branding of their soccer team. The only reason they have for Red Bull NY to be successful is that they want that Red Bull brand to be associated with success. That's it.
From what I understand, some of the losses that RB might incur in operations are shared around the league. AEG and the other owners may have more say in this than we might expect.
I am truly starting to despair over the direction the club is going in. Once hopeful, now very troubled.... Paul
i dont even know where to start......wow, all my people at work must think im nuts, i laugh harder and harder everyday at NY........this weekend cant come quick enough to get up there and laugh at the 8000 fans, and a quarter which will be DC because of the rain...........so what will Red Bull do next week after such a bad draw? we can only wait, but I bet you it will be funnier than this!
I agree. I also think folks are getting carried away by one article. It seems as if wild speculation is just flying in every direction. Red Bull is still a business. From a business perspective even if RBNY thought Harrison too small, since the Stadium hasn't been built it seems to me the prudent thing would be to upgrade the facility or at least provide the basis where it can be expanded rather easily. The other thing is that RBNY is ONLY one Investor/Operator in MLS. This is single entity folks. The other owners will have a say in what is going on. In addition, AEG is still half owner in Harrison and has interests above and beyond soccer for the venue. I think its premature that the purchase agreements made with AEG and MLS are just going to be discarded.
Do you suppose that Chinaglia is giving orders to the little green men talking to him through his tin foil hat or taking orders from them? I've got no problem with RBNY having grandiose dreams, but I have a big problem with them relying on Georgio "everything I touch turns to bankruptcy" Chinaglia's advice for those dreams. Methinks the front office is wiser than this article lets on.
Well one thing this circus has shown us...it gets more media coverage. I can't remember ever seeing this many articles about the Metrostars. Disaster to back out of a soccer specific stadium deal, if this mysterious Harrison project even really exsists : For those saying they are backing out because of the 20,000 capacity..it's not like they couldn't change the plans to make it a 30,000 seater, not like shovels have actually started digging or steel beams have been pounded into the ground yet. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.
I'd venture an uneducated guess that this would involve local planning commissions, environmental impact statements, etc. that would set the project back by at least a year.
Thing is, Beckenbauer doesn't get involved in losing ventures, so you need to use another former Cosmos player for your example. More seriously - How many fans did Cosmos REALLY draw? I remember some big crowds for international exhibitions,particularly when they had some of those mega names on hand, but for a regular league match against the New England Tea Men or Detroit Express, did they really pack 50,000 in?
I'd blame Franz more than Giorgio. I'd bet a ton that der Amerika-dumm Kaiser has been talking out of his arsh since day one on this (does Beckenbauer REALLY know and understand what's been going on with American soccer/MLS/financial realities or is he stuck in some weirdo-Cosmos 'everything was better in the 70s' timewarp. I'd bet my house on the latter). I gotta a feeling that Red Bull has the worst kind of leadership on this one to date: The one that thinks they can understand a situation quickly, don't do their research, have pre-conceived notions (cue Beckenbauer) and are getting bad continuing advice. Yup, so far from what they've shown...I'm pretty negative. They don't seem to have any clue about the big picture for soccer in this country. But we will accept their money Franz "there is only one town in the US and that's NY" can stay in Bavaria with the great memories for all I care..he's a relic..
is this the beginning of a huge downfall for the league? is this a re hash from the 70's.....im starting to get a eiry feeling about it with red bull, and I dont like it. I liked the fact they brought money into the league, didnt like whta they stood for and and all, but this is not the way to go.
Listen- I love der Kaiser as a player, and mostly since then. But all the evidence points to a guy who is trying to manage and making BIG changes without knowing the real situation on the ground. Soccer in the US is complex. One gets especially confused if they have been out of the country for 25 years, and views everything thru a 'Cosmos were the coolest' prism.... Strategically, Its more like trying to IPO a funny-money internet company with a 1999 mentality 4 years too late ....in 2003 Having said, if Dieter is willing to throw TONS of cash at this...well, sometimes cash can help you climb out of the deepest, darkest business hole
Am I the only one who was happy about the buying of the team at first but still had that thought in the back of my mind that they may try using this to take over the MLS and do whatever the f*** they want to without anyone from MLS standing in their way? I have a feeling this is only the beginning. This seems to be a train wreck in the making. I hope im wrong.
I don't know about "downfall for the league"....that's a bit premature. However, I know for sure that AEG, Kroenke, MLSE, AND ESPECIALLY HUNT, whose had a team in the NASL as well as MLS, will not allow Red Bull to screw things up. I think these cats are gonna have to band together and make a powerful voting bloc to limit Red Bull. I mean if this story isn't exaggerated or anything, they're acting like it's the 70s again and not even paying one damn to the business plan MLS has stuck to, that has kept the league alive and kicking well for 11 years.
Like I said...the owners aint havin that. Hunt, AEG, MLSE, and Kroenke have spent a pretty penny on building stadiums for the league. They are NOT going to let these cats come in and mess everything up. They'll keep them in HARD check.
The problem with this line of thinking is that the Cosmos of the NASL were the World All-Stars of their time. Player salaries were cheap, there was no Bosman so leagues were limited to 2 foreign players (if that) per team. The Yugoslav players weren't allowed to leave their league until they were 28. You could sign players like Robbie Rensenbrink or Johan Neeskens or Bogecivic for $300K. Now there are a lot of teams (Chelsea and Real Madrid are the best examples but all of the Serie A sides, all of the Premiership sides, many of the Bundesliga's top teams) that look like world all-star teams. Plus you've got TV coverage now like you didn't have then so real fans can recognize that what is top in their league may still not be as good as what they see elsewhere or on the game of the week. So putting a Ronaldo in any MLS city would raise attendance--but not by 50K--not even close. And putting a world all-name team in NYRB (let's say you had Ronaldo, Beckham, Shearer, Kahn, Zidane, and Reyna all instantly transferred to their roster) wouldn't bring in 50K more in fans. Knowledgable fans would still get that it wouldn't be the best team on the planet or even the best team in either Serie-A, the Premiership, La Liga or maybe the Bundesliga. Last of all, the Meadownlands is a pit of a place to play soccer. It's big--that's about all it's got. I think the single biggest issue the Metros ever had (and they've had a lot of them) is that b/c of the pressure of the NY area, they've wanted to be "GREAT" from day one. And that's not how great organizations get great. They build a foundation, they look for wins in many different ways. I hope the NYT article is dead-wrong. But even in the NY area (with all of their potential soccer passion and soccer savvy and soccer knowledge and numbers of possible fans), they need to create a ticket that is hard to get. Having a smaller stadium that you can use for other events gives you that. Maybe when TV rights and advertising moolah becomes the real cash cow (not stadium rental to tractor pulls and concerts) for the league then going for a 70K seat stadium (or higher) will make sense. Until then, it's a stupid idea.
Two things: 1. The health of the league as a whole should be a concern for fans of MLS, whether or not you are a fan of RBNY or not. IMO, if these dumb@sses fv_kc up a league that we truly enjoy [by fv_kcing up RBNY], we should be ANGRY as fans, not happy. 2. In light of this, I find it ironic that some fans [mostly DCU] here are laughing at this. My suggestion to DCU is that they get their act of congress passed through so that you can get a stadium, so that your franchise is solvent, so as to improve the financial viability of the league FIRST. THEN, you can chortle all you want at the abject stupidity of a few foreign jack@sses.
Well...his other source was that dude who owns the rights to the Cosmos name (don't know if that's actually worth anything)...but if you look at his quote, you can figure out how the question was asked: End of discussion...no one with RBNY ever said anything about changing the name. Why would RB want to give up brand recognition to an anachronism? This article offers little in way of legitimate sources. I guess that's par for the course with the NYT. I think the only way they don't build that stadium is if they can find one in NYC proper. If not...it gets built. I don't know why I care, I'm in Atlanta...but whatever.
Shhh...Your logic just woke up Kaiser Roll Franz out of his studio 54 slumber...."Ver ist everyboty.......hey...ver ist dee partee.....Nevermint....I go back to schleep now...."
This are scary times to be a NY/NJ soccer fan . I think my head will explode . Perhaps i should ignore this fiasco and stay away from it for the remeinder of the season. They want to bring in all this changes and outsiders to run the team. People who have no proven track record as coaches /managers/ and clueless on how MLS operates. They want to come in and run the league perhaps then run it into the ground .Once all fails, they will leave us with no professional soccer for another 10 years. I hope Shep Messing (next GM?) and others will have a sound mind and stop the nonesense. Hiring Bruce Arena would be the best thing they could do, next to building their own SSS. (they can make it 50 k state of the art,whatever ) Should i start praying ?
Wow. I'm very disappointed with Jack Bell in all this. I've spoken to Pepe Pinton before and he is as much plugged into the soccer scene in America and NYC as Mike Lupica is - meaning he's not. Bell called Pepe, because he is very accessible and loves to talk, and Pepe - did what Pepe does best, talked out of his ass. This is bologna and Bell for even publishing that paragraph without any reliable source, is a terrible lack of judgment on his part. If he believes that Red Bull is the only vested party with any say in this project than he is as dumb as Pepe. Besides, Red Bull would be stupid to pull out of Harrison, especially after all the blood, sweat, tears and goodwill devoted to this over the past 6 fk’n years! Absolutely Stupid.... And on another note - The NY Cosmos are dead. Pepe had his chance to sell the name, but that ship has sailed and now he just wants to try his darnest to capitalize what little value its worth now. Again, the Harrison stadium project and development train is moving and it will take allot more than hot (STUPID IDIOTIC THINKING) air for it to derail at this point.