Recertification 2005...

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Ref Flunkie, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Ahh yes, that time of year again. Just got back from my recertification class (Grade 8). Same ol' same ol', but here was our agenda.

    1. Law changes
    2. Game report filling out instruction review
    3. Recert test and checking of test
    4. Penalty kicks and kicks from the penalty spot
    5. Cautions and cautionable offenses
    6. Professionalism
    7. Video on mechanics which was cut short due to time

    During that time we got yelled at by the instructor because he saw a bunch of 50-60% scores from the test. He was not happy. Personally, I don't see why they give badges to those that score 50-60%, but hey, I'm not in charge. He also yelled at us (again) about our poor attempts to fill out game reports (which has been an ongoing problem over the yeras). I think I forgot one topic, but I can't remember what it was. As has been my opinion of previous recerts...not a whole lot of value from them. I know they try, but when 80-90% of the people there are under the age of 18, they can't go too detailed when it comes to instruction.
  2. brhsoccer14

    brhsoccer14 New Member

    Nov 18, 2004
    Baton Rouge, LA, USA
    Hey, I'm 16 and take instruction very well... I am hoping to get nominated for Youth referee of the year 2005...
  3. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Thank goodness there are some out there like you....lets just say from my observations of my recert class, there aren't many like you in that group :).
  4. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    My son and I just got our first gr 8 recert, and I was shocked by the not having to actually pass the test, seems all they want is the money.

    A few questions on the test were also junk.

    Overall I was not impressed.

    We covered less than you:

    - new/changed rules, some of them
    - push for game reports on injuries/cards
    - reminder for earings
    - lightning info
    - new shirt over the head stuff

    Nothing on mechanics, no video, we were in and out in under 90 minutes including test/review of test, paper work.
  5. schmuckatelli

    schmuckatelli New Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    They give those guys badges??? :eek: In my part of the country, if you don't make 70%, it's try-try-again, which seems pretty reasonable to me.
  6. chrisrun

    chrisrun Member

    Jan 13, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In Florida, our Grade 8 recert class is scheduled for 5 hours (usually lasts about 4), and you need a 75% to pass. This is our agenda this year:

    Advice to Referee on the Laws of the Game 30 Min
    2004 Memorandum 30 Min
    Law Test - Minimum Score 75% 1 hour
    Flawless Communication 45 Min
    Break 15 Min
    Team Building 30 Min
    Local issues/ Law Test review 30 Min
    Registration of referees 1 hour
  7. Laggard

    Laggard New Member

    May 23, 2001
    Beeswax Noneofyour
    It's 75% here also.
  8. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    That sounds like what we did last year (earings and lightning). We did spend WAY too long on shirt over the head. Our class lasted 6 hours!!! 1 hour for lunch too. It was insane. And yes, they pass anyone that basically stays the length of class, which is a shame. It's funny, in the next breath the instructor complains that anything you do poorly as a referee reflects on ALL referees. Then why the heck do you give badges to those that don't know the laws (unless the secretly didn't give them badges, but I doubt it). Honestly, I finished the test in 10 minutes (50 questions) was so simple it was scary. Next year, if they complain about our lack of knowledge again, I'm going to raise my hand and ask why they pass people who score 50%.
  9. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I remember right, our recert test is called a 'refresher' and it's a series of situational questions. The papers weren't collected, and we went over it shortly after we finished.

    I don't remember what the grade was to get the badge in the first place.
  10. Jeff from Michigan

    Jeff from Michigan New Member

    Dec 22, 1999
    Livonia, Michigan

    Well...not to be making excuses for poor performance....

    But the goal of the referee program (at least, here in Michigan), is to maintain as many officials as possible. Setting people up for failure is not something the "powers that be" want to do...but since they don't seem to want to flunk anyone who can't pass the test, I'm not sure that the effect is any different.

    In theory...what they're supposed to do is talk to anyone with a failing score, and talk them through the test to let them pass. In practice, given the "cattle-call" recert's we tend to have, the "cattle-call" grading tends to weed out nobody.

    If you're interested in advancing, or simply attending a program that's less of a waste of your time, you might want to try attending the State Recert. It's held in Lansing each year, and since it's designed for the serious, and advanced officials, the program is a lot more interesting, and quite a bit more helpful. If you can't make it there next year, the recert class in Jackson is usually a lot smaller...and quite a bit more helpful...than the giant assemblies that gather at the other sites.

    Email me if you need more info...(or, if you like, remind me the next time we wind up at the same field).
  11. vabeacher

    vabeacher Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Virginia Beach, VA
    We need a 75 in VA to pass. But as many posters have stated, you get to try-try again until you get it right. The test isn't nearly as important as real game experience. We happen to be lucky to have a couple of instructors who take the time to work 2 or 3 games with their new grade 8 referees.

    Two different test were handed out in our session, a blue and a green. General concensus was that the green test was the more difficult test. Any thoughts.
  12. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI

    Cool Jeff, thanks. I always waffle between wanting to advance or not, but I'm always up for learning more and feel like I get little out of the "cattle call" recerts, as you put it :). Honestly, I wasn't even aware I was allowed to attend the State Recert.

    As for "talking those that failed through the test", I can accept that, but there is no way they could have done it for the class I was at, especially if there were as many that failed as the instructor seemed to indicate by his anger (honestly, I would be peeved too!). While I know this is wishful thinking, I wish they would have "advanced" grade 8/7 recerts for those that want to learn more about the art of refereeing. I know it is hard to roll out more then one agenda for recertification classes state wide, but I think having some of the classes geared toward young referees who just want to referee U-12 and below games and others geard toward referees (young and old) who want to do higher level games or older games would be great. I have no problem dedicating a day to recertification if I thought I would get something out of it.
  13. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    when i started reffing i soon realized that many people had opinions about "how i was doing" but, i didn't know if they were good opinions or not. so...i signed up for intermediate class (upgrade 7). as a 7 you will get an assessment, more training, more indepth training, etc. a national instructor told a class i attended this year, "after a couple of years, all refs should put in for 7. it is the full performancy grade for basic refs." having taken the class, passed the test, and the running, had the game count, just needed the assessment to go to 7. so...starting with a desire for more info and better feedback on what i was doing, i ended up with a 7.

    once there i decided i wanted more. so...after getting close to the needed gamecount, i signed up for upgrade 6 class - 2 full days of real discussion and review of the law and how to apply it. no lectures. situation discussions in a class of 20. and then there was the assessments. 2 ar cr, one at ar. with higher expectations. and then the senior recert class. a more difficult test and the running. finished up all the requirements early this month. expect to see that 2005 badge with the added word - "state" for next season.

    i started this advocation too late in life to look for any more. but i am pleased to have worked hard to get to the 6. may slow down a little next year though. 400 games makes for a busy year. even had 50-60 rainouts that i missed games.

    i guess my point is - seek the training, go for the 7 at a minimum. encourage younger refs to study the law, atr, q&a's, etc. it will benefit us all - refs, players, and fans.
  14. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    That is an interesting way to look at the Grade 7. I find this situation similar to the chicken and the egg. I'll have to think on upgrading next year (I always do in the winter). I should have more then enough games logged to upgrade.
  15. jacathcart

    jacathcart New Member

    Oct 11, 2002
    Tacoma WA
    Fortunately we have a very professional organization here in Pierce County with dedicated and highly experienced refs so they do a good job at the monthly meetings of education and training. But the answer to the implied question above is the same answer as questions about why teams have crummy bullying coaches - because there isn't a line of qualified applicants stretching out the door to replace the bad refs and bad coaches.

    Parents pay up the gump stump for select teams to pay their trainers and coaches and travel all over the country and wail about chump change fees for the officials. Capitalism still reigns supreme - raise officials compensation to a decent level and a lot more qualified applicants will appear and then you can raise standards.

  16. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    You mean highly qualified individuals are more inclined to become officials with an increase in pay?

    What a shocking concept!
  17. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Honestly, in my one league that I do (youth), I get paid really well in my opinion. It is somewhat a catch 22 though. I can just buy a shirt, shorts, and whistle, take a class where I don't have to pass anything, and become a "professional referee"....why should anyone pay me more then minimum wage? I'm trying to play devils advocate, but I think you have to earn a raise in compensation, not just give it out in order to attract more people beginners to refereeing. Honestly, if you raised our pay by 50%, I can't see it drawing any more people to do games (would make us that do them new feel good though!). What gets me more turned off to refereeing is the coaches/parents/players attitudes.

    I just don't understand the reasoning behind "If we don't have enough people, we take anyone we can get". If you don't have enough people, too bad! Maybe if someone's kid doesn't get to be on a soccer team because of lack of referees, it will motivate them to become one. I think there need to be standards for both coaches and referees, and if they don't meet those standards, the you don't coach or referee. Maybe if games start to not have referees, the underlying problems of youth soccer will be fixed.
  18. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    What I don't understand is the penchant for requiring ARs on all games, including young youth games. I was at the park this weekend and was surprised to see ARs on a U10 game.

    In most other established football countries you won't see ARs until U17B competitive and up. When learning to referee, having ARs becomes a crutch to fall back on when the going gets tough. It helps build confidence and character when a beginning referee has to go out there alone and do the best they can. You've also tripled your available referees for those levels of games. By not using ARs clubs can now afford to be more discriminatory towards who becomes a referee.
  19. njref

    njref Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    New Jersey
    It depends on your location. Most north NJ youth leagues rarely use ARs. I saw in Connecticut they used ARs for U-10 travel.

    My mom used to tell me shovelling snow built character, but when I got my house, I bought a snowblower.
  20. jc508

    jc508 New Member

    Jan 3, 2000
    Columbus, Ohio area
    In central Ohio, our agenda included the following:
    Local Issues and topics of complaints
    Test and test review
    Video on the Laws of the Game
    Pregame Discussion
    Mistakes most often made by AR's
    Video of Youth games scenarios for fouls

    We too require that everyone pass the test, but, frankly, our enforcement is wanting. We still don't have enough refs to cover all of our games. Just as a starving man will eat almost anything, we want to keep every ref we can. Rather than use the test to weed out those refs who may not have studied the rules for the recert, we like to use the test as a learning tool by reviewing the questions with the participants so that they hopefully learn from the test and the discussion of the questions.

    It's not easy putting together a clinic each year that is informative and not boring to as many as possible. If anyone has any ideas, I would gladly welcome any input.
  21. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I don't know, I think youth refs get paid pretty well. Our new youth refs start with local rec, they do it alone, its U10, they get $15/game so basically $15/hr. Stepping up to the state league our town plays in, it goes up by age, but for my son, who is 14, to ref say 3 games all U12 and under, two as AR, one as CR, he is looking at making about $50-$60 for 3 hours work.
    He and I also got "drafted" to ref a more advanced league this year a bit, U13G, CR=$35, AR=$25. Not bad for under 2 hours work. If you do a tournament, you can easily pull in a couple hundred for the weekend.

    That is GOOD money for a young teenager.

    We have plenty of refs around here, MANY drop out after 1 year and don't get recertified either because of lack of games, they just didn't like it, or most commonly, parents and coaches.
  22. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI

    Shoot we have ARs for U10 games and maybe even younger. Is it a state directive or a local directive? If it is based on league decisions, I may bring it up to our scheduler that we nix the ARs for U10-U12. I'm not sure what this helps, but who knows. I always get this way this time of year.

    Sounds like we get paid about the same as you NHRef, maybe a little bit less, but pretty close. That's why I said, if what we get paid now doesn't bring in the ref's, I can't see raises doing much to increase the numbers.
  23. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    If you drop your u10 and/or u12 AR's, you will NOT get a corresponding increase in referees available to center games. Most of those AR's are very young or very inexperienced. They will fail quickly when they try to do the u16 barbarians.

    We use AR's at u12, and in many cases it is overkill. But it provides a training ground for those AR's, and also a place where a center can get experience with AR's before hitting the bigger games. It's probably not the quickest way to get experience - sometimes the games are boring for the AR's, and they don't learn very much. But then, how many enjoyed learning how to swim by being thrown into the deep end?
  24. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    We use AR down to any 8v8 format, which I believe is U10 "travel". It helps ALOT, it gives young ARs the chance to get use to calling offside with a team that is slow and cannot physically send a through ball from 30-50 yards away. Offside calls at U12 and under are pretty easy to get the hang of. The game is slower and the ball can't travel as far.

    It also gives CR the chance to actually HAVE to run the diagonal as well as get in the habit of eye contact with the ARs. CR-ARs is a team, younger refs get the chance to learn this when the price for not knowing it is not as high.

    If you have the bodies and the leagues are willing to pay, I strongly recommend it.
  25. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Honestly, sometimes I find myself having to make up for the mistakes of my younger ARs, which becomes annoying at times. Don't get me wrong, there are some good ARs out there, but some of them have no clue what is going on, even when I try to explain things to them. This all goes back to training. I honestly have no good answers, I just think off the top of my head and post....probably not wise :).

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