Rebuilding The Azzurri for Euro 2024 and beyond

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by indestructible, Mar 26, 2022.

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  1. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Regardless if Mancini stays or not, which players do you think the manager should rely on in this next cycle?

    DISCUSS
     
  2. ECMoney

    ECMoney Member

    May 9, 2003
    Toronto
    From the current crop I think we are fine to continue with Jorginho, Veratti, Locatelli, Barella, Bastoni, Di Lorenzo, Chiesa, Spinazzola, Donnarumma, Berardi, etc

    I personally would start to move away from Immobile, Insigne, Bonucci, Chiellini, and Florenzi and start to bring in Tonali, Scamacca, Pinamonti, Zaniolo, etc Bonucci may have 1-2 years to help us through the transition.
     
  3. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    Some players I think we need to integrate are Bellanova, Pinamonti, Calabria,Tonali,Zaccagni, Scamacca, Frattesi,Orsolini,Simone Bastoni,Verde, Carnesecchi/Plizzari, Luca Pellegrini

    Sensi if at all possible

    Central Defenders - keep an eye out for Lovato and Luperto. Try to understand can Romagnoli rerally give us anything (I still believe he can)

    Maybe Caprari if he can catch lightning in a bottle for Italia

    Pobega maybe one or two friendlies to see if he brings anything to the fold. Give Rovella a couple of chances.

    Also, never understood why Grifo was jus wiped away from Mancini's memory
     
  4. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Don't forget that the next under 21 finals are in June 2023 so most of the players who play in that team will stay there until the finals and the ones deemed worthy enough will join the azzurri in september 2023.
     
  5. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Players to integrate looking ahead to 2024 Euros (and their age at Euro 2024):

    GK:
    Carnesecchi (23)

    RB:
    Calabria (27)
    Bellanova (24)

    LB:
    Di Marco (26)
    Pellegrini (25)
    Calafiori (22)

    CB:
    Lovato (24)
    Gabbia (24)
    Okoli (23)
    Scalvini (20)

    CM:
    Fagioli (23)
    Frattesi (24)
    Ricci (22)
    Pobega (25)
    Rovella (22)

    LW/LM:
    Sottil (25)

    RW/RM:
    Orsolini (27)
    Vignato (23)
    Cancellieri (22)

    ST:
    Pinamonti (25)
    Lucca (23)
    Colombo (22)
    Esposito (22)
     
  6. pindal

    pindal Member

    Aug 26, 2010
    #6 pindal, Mar 28, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
    Possible squad for 2024:

    GK:
    Donnarumma (25)
    Meret (27)
    Carnesecchi (23)

    RB:
    Spinazzola (31)
    Calabria (27)

    LB:
    Dimarco (26)
    Calafiori (22)

    CB:
    Bonucci (36) (C)
    Bastoni (24)
    Mancini (27)
    Rugani (29)

    CM:
    Jorginho (32)
    Locatelli (26)
    Barella (27)
    Tonali (23)
    Verratti (31)
    Pellegrini (27)

    LW:
    Zaniolo (24)
    Sottil (24)

    RW:
    Chiesa (26)
    Berardi (29)

    ST:
    Scamacca (25)
    Pinamonti (25)


    Possible Lineup

    ----------------------Donnarumma------------------
    Spinazzola----Bastoni---Bonucci----Dimarco
    ------------------------Jorginho-----------------------
    ----------Berella--------------------Locatelli--------
    Chiesa--------------Scamacca-----------Zaniolo


    As you can see, the midfield is almost the same as now, because i think that's not the problem, even if there are memorable exclusions like Pessina and Pobega.
     
  7. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    If Zaniolo can reach his potential and Chiesa recovers 100% our attack would be incredible. As this season goes by, I fear Zaniolo may end up being a wasted talent; periodically his brilliance shines through, but he is beyond inconsistent. Given Chiesa and Zaniolo's biggest strength being their speed/tenacity I don't see them being terribly effective late in their careers. So I sure hope they can both click sooner than later​
     
  8. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This is my list and thoughts for the immediate future.

    Goal:
    We're safe here IMO

    - Donnarumma: Needs to regain his form. Maybe leave PSG.
    - Meret (Needs to become Napoli or another teams undisputed #1)
    - Options for 3-4: Cragno, Silvestri, Montipo, Gollini
    - Carnesecchi: Good prospect.

    Out: Sirigu. Served his purpose.


    Left Back: I think a couple of questions here

    - Spina: Question marks about his health as he is always struggling with something. Also he's not exactly young.
    - Biraghi: Having a good season. Might be a safe choice to work with

    Out:
    - Emerson: Nothing bad, but nothing special either. Maybe coming back to Serie A will give him a boost.

    In:
    - L.Pellegrini: Great tools but has to earn the confidence of the manager. If he can't do it for Juve he needs to go to a team where he is the guy or else he could end up as the next Rugani.
    - DiMarco: Skillful left back playing on the wrong team in a system that doesn't suit him. I see him good on a team like Lazio in a defense of 4.
    - Udogie: Wild card but I like him. Already a regular at Udinese and is only 19. Mancini has to be brave (as he was at the beginning) with his picks.


    Right Back: Safe here for now

    Di Lorenzo: Reliable
    Calabria: They're saying that Mancini and him got into an argument hence his omission. Mancini needs to get over this.
    Lazzari: Good wingback. Great option if you ever want to have to ability to change shape and attack the wings.

    Out: Florenzi, De Sciglio


    CB: For the immediate future, I see problems here.

    -Bonucci: Old but with Chiellini gone Mancini will likely continue to rely on him as captain. I have questions.
    - Bastoni: Our only bright spot

    After these two, there is a definite drop off
    - Mancini: I don't really have a problem with him as 4-5th defender. But not a starter.
    - Romagnoli: Also needs to be on a team where he is regularly relied on.
    - Ferrari: Serviceable, but nothing special
    - Luiz Felipe: Nothing special. Very desperate call-up by Mancini when he could have taken a chance on a younger player
    - Toloi: Solid player in a 3 man defense. But already 31. We need to start looking past him

    Out:
    Chiellini, Acerbi because they are old as shit.

    In:
    Two guys I would have called up for this round:
    - Lovato: good prospect. Another U21 that Mancini should gamble on.
    - Casale: Having a very good season at Hellas. 24 years old. Might get a big transfer next summer.



    Midfield: Our strongest area in terms of depth

    - Verratti: Still our only real fuoriclasse
    - Locatelli: Needs to play better. I hope Allegri gets fired because I don't think he knows how to get the best out of him
    - Tonali: We're blessed. Very good mediano to rely on for years to come.
    - Barella: Needs a vacation right now. Something is off. Needs to rediscover his form from last year
    - Pellegrini
    - Jorginho: When he's good, he is great. When he's not, he hurts you. Tempted to say drop him. One trick pony that Mancini has created an entire system around. We need new ideas.

    Out:
    - Sensi. Played 20 games in 3 years. Good player but another guy who couldn't stay healthy. Not exactly lighting the world on fire at Samp. His inclusion was not merited.
    - Cristante: jack of all trades master of 0.
    - Pessina: An OK player that WAS good in 3/4s. Now for whatever reason he is used as plug to insert anywhere you need him. We can do better IMO

    In:
    - Frattesi: Skillful mid who should already be there
    - Mandragora: Good defensive option
    - Pobega: Having a good season
    - Castrovilli: Playing good under Italiano
    - Rovella: Another good gamble.

    Attackers & Wingers:
    - Chiesa: Great reference point to build the attack around. Injury concerns me though.
    - Zaccagni: Having a great season under Sarri. Should have played vs. Macedonia
    - Zaniolo: Needs to fulfill potential. A change of team might benefit him.
    - Berrardi: The first good time for Berrardi to have moved to a big club was years ago. The second best time is this summer.
    - Politano, Orsolini: Serviceable wingers. Orsolini needs to leave Bologna.

    Out:
    - Insigne: Finished player
    - Bernadeschi: Going to Juve stunted his career. Maybe he can have a renaissance in another squad. But I would drop him now.

    In:
    - Sottil: Good exciting winger

    Strikers: Of the current guys I would only keep these:

    - Scamacca: Goes without saying. If he fulfills his potential, he's exactly what this side has been missing. Needs to join a big club ASAP.
    - Raspadori: Really like him. Has a real hunger for goal. Can be a #9, or support striker or play directly behind the striker. He gives the manager options. Needs to join a big club ASAP.
    - Kean: Needs to play regularly. Career is not going anywhere right now. Another guy who needs a change of scenery.

    Out:
    - Immobile: Nothing more to add.
    - Belotti: Another guy who plays too similarly in the vein of Immobile.
    - Joao Pedro: Thank you for your services.
    - Balo: It would have been nice for Balotelli to get the redemption arc, but now that it hasn't happened, safe to say the door is closed forever.

    In:
    - Caprari: Only to reward for his good play this year
    - Pinamonti: Good Italian #9 who Mancini should have called instead of Joao Pedro. Having a decent year on a very humble Empoli side.
    - Bonazzoli: People here may not agree but I like him a lot. A very hungry striker playing on a bad team. He can't be worse than any other striker we have right now. I think Samp are programming him as the long term replacement for Quagliarella

    Anyway these are at the top of my head. Maybe some names I'm missing
     
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  9. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    Thanks for the laughs. All true. Agree with basically everything here. Cristatante is Mr. Vanilla.

    I think Kean is similar to El Shaarawy and anticipate his career will look similar. I don't see Kean as ever living up to the early hype; he is good but not great.

    After Balotelli being omitted last week it seemed like his NT career was likely over. After his face tats this week, he solidified his place in the dust bin.
     
  10. thorus

    thorus Member

    Feb 28, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    Well, I'm for giving Immobile one last chance at the NT. Pair him with Zaccagni for this game; if he still looks terrible at the end of the first half, then, remove him permanently from the national squad.

    Insigne: out

    Belotti: I know people are down on him but he has gotten a bum rap. His use has been inconsistent; start one game and then ride the bench for the next 5-6 games, or come in as a sub with 10-15 minutes left. There's no way he establish any chemistry with the other players on the pitch that way. So, I would give him a starting spot for the next 4-5 games; if he still under performs, then, he's out as well.

    I would like to see Raspadori, Scamacca, Pinamonti get a shot; someone mentioned Bonazzoli, and he should get a shot too. Same for Kean; some team needs to give him a chance so he can learn from his mistakes. If he doesn't get his form back, then, he should be out of consideration too.

    Love Chiellini...but he should be on the bench and just used as a pseudo coach for the defense...or played sparingly.

    As for formations, maybe try a 4-4-2, with Berardi paired with Scamacca, Raspadori, or Kean. Use the fourth midfielder with Pessina or give a shot to Pellegrini. Also, as someone else mentioned Verratti and Jorgingho are kinda similar; pick just one as the starter.

    On central defense, maybe keep Bonucci for now but give a chance to Bastoni/Romagnoli/Mancini to gain experience, and chemistry, playing alongside each other.
     
  11. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    Jorginho out. Slow, can’t dribble, arrogant, too cowardly to attempt a dangerous pass. Too skinny. Ugly. Basically everything about him is unbearable.
     
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  12. Non Venite in Puglia

    Juventus
    Italy
    Feb 26, 2021
    #12 Non Venite in Puglia, Mar 29, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
    I am all for inclusion of the younger players, but I don’t subscribe to the popular opinion that everything in the NT needs to be thrown away. Minor tweaks and inclusions will make a world of difference moving forward. A revolution that depends on players, like Zaniolo, who seem to be living on reputation at this point will not work. As we saw at the EUROs, chemistry will take us a lot further than Twitter opinions on who is or who isn’t good.

    OUT

    (1) Immobile
    (2) Insigne
    (3) Emerson
    (4) Florenzi
    (5) Belotti
    (6) Chiellini (retirement)

    KEEP

    (1) Bonucci
    (2) Jorginho

    I am not a fan of the 4-3-3, as I think it limits and marginalizes players, like Raspadori, Zaniolo, Pellegrini, etc. However, assuming Mancini insists with the 4-3-3 going forward and we have everyone healthy, I think the team below is the best starting 11 for that specific formation:

    ——————— - Donnarumma - ———————

    Di Lorenzo — Bonucci — Bastoni — Spinazzola

    — — Barella — — — Tonali — — — Verratti — —

    Berardi — — — — Scamacca — — — — Chiesa

    A formation change by Mancini would likely change the personnel. Today against Turkey, Mancini went to a 5 man backline, which became 3 in possession, to close out the match.

    Again, assuming we have everyone back and healthy for a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2, depending on perspective:

    ——————— - Donnarumma - ———————

    — — Mancini — — - Bonucci - — — Bastoni ——

    Di Lorenzo — — — — — — — — — — Spinazzola
    - — — — — Tonali - — - — - Verratti — — — — —

    — — — — — — — Pellegrini — — — — — — — —

    — — — — — Scamacca — Raspadori — — — — —

    For a 3-2-3-1:

    ——————— - Donnarumma - ———————

    — — Mancini — — - Bonucci - — — Bastoni ——

    - — — — — Tonali - — - — - Verratti — — — — -

    Pellegrini — — — Raspadori — — — Chiesa

    — — — — — — — Scamacca — — — — — — —

    For a traditional 3-5-2:

    ——————— - Donnarumma - ———————

    — — Mancini — — - Bonucci - — — Bastoni ——

    — — — — Barella — - Tonali - — Verratti — — — —
    - Di Lorenzo — — — — — — — — — — — Chiesa -

    — — — — — Scamacca — Raspadori — — — — —

    Forza e coraggio!
     
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  13. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Like a few people here I don't think we need a complete overall. Mancini usually calls up 25-26 players for international fixtures. These are the guys I would roll with until 2024....

    GK:
    1) Donnarumma: His form is very shaky right now, but we know he has talent. Leaving PSG might be the way to go.
    2) Meret: He is a bit of a question mark as well with injuries and not always starting, but like Donnarumma has the talent.
    3) Cragno or Gollini: Depending who's in better form. If Donnarumma or Meret are hurt or in poor form, take them both.

    FB:
    4) Spinna: Hopefully he can stay healthy in the future, he is heads and shoulders above anyone else at LB.
    5) Di Lorenzo: I disagree with some people that want to drop him. I still think he's a good option on the right, especially if he can lineup opposite of Spinna.
    6) Biraghi: He had a good game today and showed what I always believed, that he's better than Emerson and should play over him.
    7) Calabria: No excuse to ignore him at this point.

    CB:
    8) Bonnucci: The veteran presence for one more big tournament.
    9) Bastoni: Our brightest young CB.
    10) Mancini: At this point he's our best third option.
    11) Romagnoli: I believe he will rise up again if he goes to Lazio.

    Mid:
    12) Verratti: Essential.
    13) Barella: We know this guy is world class. He probably needs some rest, but I have zero doubt he will play up to his high standards soon.
    14) Tonali: I watch him every week, and he's growing by the game. I think he should replace Jorginho in the starting lineup.
    15) Locatelli: Hard to look great when you play for Allegri, but he's still a lock on the team.
    16) Pellegrini: I sometimes forget he is only 25. I don't think he's reached his ceiling.
    17) Pessina: Also only 25, and while he hasn't started every game for Atlanta this year, he's not a bench player like someone here likes to mention. Atlanta are playing in Europe, so he doesn't start every game. Is still coming back from injury as well.
    18) Fratessi: The one missing midfielder who needs to be implemented in the national side.

    Wing:
    19) Chiesa: Obviously he's our offensive star.
    20) Berardi: I think some of you guys are crazy for wanting to drop him. He does need to make a jump this summer to a bigger club.
    21) Zaniolo: Winger or midfielder, I'm not giving up on him yet. He has the talent that few possess.
    22) Zaccagni: I want to see more of him in the future. Not totally sold yet, but I think he can prove me wrong.
    23) Berna: Yes I'm still taking him. I think once he leaves Juve, we may see Berna rise up like Lazarus and fulfill his promise.

    CF:
    24) Scamacca: Didn't have the greatest game today, but I've seen good stuff at Sassuolo from him. His size is the key, and he holds up play well.
    25) Raspadori: I've questioned his ability in the past, but I was probably wrong. He's really impressed lately for club and country.
    26) Belotti: I'm with Thorus, Belotti would still be in my plans for this team.

    There you go. My core 26 for now.
     
  14. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Raspadori scored two today against Turkey. He improved the offense against Northern Macedonia but didn't have the time to make it count. I wonder, if Mancini hadn't stubbornly kept Immobile, we might be celebrating tonight.
     
  15. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    I agree with most of what you guys are proposing. However, at 48 years old, I've seen a lot of Azzurri turnover. Lots can happen between now and 2024. It will hurt a lot watching another WC without Gli Azzurri. Just seems wrong.

    I have no doubt we can build a strong team, but we have to absolutely find strikers who have ICE in their veins and can finish. Raspadori seems to have that when he puts on the Azzurro. We need more of that. Players that don't shy away from the spotlight up top.

    Someone mentioned Bonazzoli. That's a really good player. At 24, he's been wasted over the years by impatient managers, but I think he can really do some damage. Esposito seems like a headcase. Pinamonti is a try hard guy, but I don't think he'll ever be elite. Kean simply isn't skilled enough to be a prima punta that carries a team. Scamacca right now seems to have the talent...I just question his toughness and mental make-up. He's very fragile psychologically.
     
  16. Xylophone

    Xylophone Member

    Fiorentina
    Jan 30, 2018
    I would like to see Francesco Caputo getting a chance as a short-term option. His age is nothing for an Italian player, who have had late-bloomers such as Antonio Di Natale and Luca Toni before.
     
  17. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma

    Zaniolos issues are twofold; Pellegrini taking his position and the injuries. So he is forced to take up a wing position, but he has always been a square peg in a round hole here. He is not subtle enough to play the wing consistently. Without these injuries, Id say he would be the one picking his position, with the club doing everything to accommodate him. He will always be at his best driving from the centre but there is more to his game here as well. Evidence by his debut against Real Madrid away, where he was arguably the best player on the park for 60 mins and how many youngsters can lay claim to that. He did everything simple, elegant touches and moved the ball on. It was a special debut and perhaps he needs to be reminded of that. Keeping it simple often leads to a better player. I think even now, after the injuries, he can make those driving runs but he has to get back to a balance of playing simple as well

    Right now the frustration of playing out of position, lacking form, lacking quality service from midfield and getting rugby tackled on the regular is all building up and its resulting in him forcing his play. When that happens, it only leads to more bad play. He needs a rest and time to reset away from it. He is doing ok considering what he went through. As long as he keeps injury free, this tough year might be good for his mentality in the long run.

    His future may lay away from Roma if they cannot accommodate him in the centre. A mistake if it comes to that imo.

    That player who made his debut playing controlled is still there so I do not worry about loss of speed as he ages.
     
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  18. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I definitely haven't lost hope on Zaniolo, i'm a closet Roma fan and it's frustrating seeing him play out of position.
     
  19. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    if you're including Belotti still in your prospective team, you are part of the problem. please, it's time to move on from this out of shape and dried up player.
     
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  20. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I really think a change of scenery will do him good. From Roma's viewpoint however you can't valorize him at this current form. It would be really stupid risk for a team like Juve to come in now and drop what 60-70 million?

    Funny enough I do see Zaniolo as an Allegri guy. Whereas guys like Fagioli and Rovella are not and likely going nowhere at Juve as long as he’s in charge. Maybe something can worked out or else you risk losing him in 2 years for 0
     
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  21. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Part of Zaniolo's problem is that he gets hyped so damn much and he starts to believe the hype. Pre-ACLs he really was a future world superstar. But post ACLs, I'm not quite seeing the same burst. You all know the burst I'm talking about where he could steamroll down the middle of the field and defenders panic.

    As I said before, ACLs often take 2 years to fully heal. So, maybe he can get back to where he was. But, that explosion was a HUGE part of his game. He is not a Totti or Baggio. He doesn't have their feet. He's much more of a physical weapon with good enough feet (both of them) to really do damage.

    Next year will be pivotal for him, but he has to get his head sorted out. He needs to stay humble and put in the work and sacrifice needed to get to that elite level again.
     
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  22. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I hope chiesa doesn't suffer the same fate
     
  23. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Zaniolo can become Italy's version Hamsik IMO (the Hamsik of Reja and Mazzarri and not Sarri)

    A midfielder who can drive the ball down field but is also a goal threat when he's present in the 18.
     
  24. Non Venite in Puglia

    Juventus
    Italy
    Feb 26, 2021
    #24 Non Venite in Puglia, Mar 31, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
    Hamsik was very comfortable with both feet. De Bruyne, another player that drives from midfield positions, is comfortable with both feet. Zaniolo has two left feet.

    For as much hype as he’s gotten (from myself included), his limitations are beginning to surface. We can attribute his stunt in growth to his injuries, which is fair, but at the end of the day, he has to improve in a lot of areas. Huge margins for improvement are needed in order to be anywhere near the type of player that De Bruyne is or that Hamsik was at Napoli.
     
  25. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I never mentioned De Bruyne because he will never be that good and Hamsik was also nowhere near De Bruyne’s level. But I stand by my Hamsik comparison which I think is perfectly attainable. Especially the pre Benitez Napoli Hamsik. You’re misremembering Hamsik as being better than he was. Defensively he was average (Zaniolo also) but good at counterattacking. Many games he’d be anonymous but he was also good for a clutch goal when we needed it. The big difference is that Hamsik knew how to play for the team whereas Zaniolo has to learn this.
     

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